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Raistlindantilus
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Join Date: Nov 2018
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Old February 2nd, 2020, 04:35 PM
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Originally Posted by kbs666 View Post
What was so frustrating, just like 4e, is they just would not listen to the players saying how they didn't like it. Even back during the PF2 previews there were lots of people raising concerns that were just blown off. I lost pretty much all respect for Paizo then.
I was doing some web searching today trying to see if Paizo is slowing down or losing confidence in PF2e but it doesn't seem they are, not yet at least.

We could be seeing a a PF3e or PF1.5 in the near future if PF2e fails to get adopted as I'm pretty sure is going to happen.
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Toblakai
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Old February 2nd, 2020, 07:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Raistlindantilus View Post
I was doing some web searching today trying to see if Paizo is slowing down or losing confidence in PF2e but it doesn't seem they are, not yet at least.

We could be seeing a a PF3e or PF1.5 in the near future if PF2e fails to get adopted as I'm pretty sure is going to happen.
If PF2 dies and PF3 is release, I fear for LWD's future. I think PF2 threw a huge wrench in the works, supporting it and the playtest. Not sure if they could handle another wrench.
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Valyar
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Old February 2nd, 2020, 08:19 PM
That's why you don't do vendor lock-in in the first place.

The past is a rudder to guide us, not an anchor to hold us back.
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ruhar
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Old February 2nd, 2020, 09:59 PM
I am an admitted module queen, and I use RW for those modules. Since LWD no longer supports it, I'm stuck with what they left behind with no improvements down the road. But, it's still an excellent tool for homebrews as well as module queens like me. It beats having multiple pieces of paper with notes scribbled out.

As for subscription-based programs, forget it. I don't have a lot of money to throw away on subscriptions, and I'm not always at a location where I have internet. I want to load the program on my computer and use it wherever I am whether I have internet access or not.
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Phrll
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Old February 3rd, 2020, 05:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Toblakai View Post
If PF2 dies and PF3 is release, I fear for LWD's future. I think PF2 threw a huge wrench in the works, supporting it and the playtest. Not sure if they could handle another wrench.
From what I've seen and heard in gaming stores near me, PF2 definitely isn't struggling here. It seems a lot of groups have already made the switch, particularly those with GMs or players who are also PF Society members. I've tried it and have mixed feelings, there are things I like and things I don't. The one PF game I'm in is staying with PF1 for now but everyone is interested in giving PF2 a try sometime. The same group resisted moving from D&D 3.5 to PF1 until they gave it a try.
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kbs666
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Old February 3rd, 2020, 06:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Phrll View Post
From what I've seen and heard in gaming stores near me, PF2 definitely isn't struggling here. It seems a lot of groups have already made the switch, particularly those with GMs or players who are also PF Society members. I've tried it and have mixed feelings, there are things I like and things I don't. The one PF game I'm in is staying with PF1 for now but everyone is interested in giving PF2 a try sometime. The same group resisted moving from D&D 3.5 to PF1 until they gave it a try.
I'm sure there are areas where PFS is thriving but it has been all but wiped out here. DDAL can get 6 to 8 tables versus 1 or 2 for PFS, and that may be down some more since PFS2 started.

I know PFS has been driving sales for Paizo but, IMO, it has been poisonous for tabletop role playing. It has put the idea into many player's heads that the goal is to break the game and that access to almost everything ever published should be available in a campaign. I've had probably 20 PFS players come through my home game in the last 4 years (we've been trying to get a 6th player for some time) and all have been unhappy with the limits on player options I have as well as my absolute ban on attempts to over power the other players.

my Realm Works videos
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCZU...4DwXXkvmBXQ9Yw
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Maidhc O Casain
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Old February 3rd, 2020, 06:51 PM
For me it's a matter of "it's gotta stop somewhere." I honestly have no idea whether or not I'd like PF2. I'm not going to find out. I spent a TON of money on D&D, then on AD&D, then on 3 and 3.5. When PF1 came out I waited, then bought in with the self-imposed caveat that this would be the last d20 game I'd invest in. And now I've got all of the HLC content for PF1.

And I like it. Complications and flaws and all, I like it. And at my age, there's more than enough material already published to last the rest of my natural life.

Add the multi-genre systems - Savage Worlds, HERO, FATE - to the mix, and I'm set for life. I'll not spend another dime on new game systems.

I like what I've seen of HLO and Campaign Theater, and if LW would incorporate any of the systems I play into HLO (which I guess would be PF1, SW or FATE, as HERO System has it's own character generator) I'd happily lay out $$ for that service. But as is? They're not selling anything I want to spend my money on right now.
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Farling
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Old February 4th, 2020, 01:52 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maidhc O Casain View Post
For me it's a matter of "it's gotta stop somewhere." I honestly have no idea whether or not I'd like PF2. I'm not going to find out. I spent a TON of money on D&D, then on AD&D, then on 3 and 3.5. When PF1 came out I waited, then bought in with the self-imposed caveat that this would be the last d20 game I'd invest in. And now I've got all of the HLC content for PF1.
I've gone through the same. I think the games companies like to reinvent every ~5-10 years so that they can sell a full set of books yet again. For those that have been around since first D&D it just gets repetitive.

The worst thing about PF(1) is that I've been buying PDFs rather than physical books, so the true scale of how many books I own is hidden - rather than being visible on bookshelves.

Farling

Author of the Realm Works Import (http://forums.wolflair.com/showthread.php?t=58156) and Output tools (http://forums.wolflair.com/showthread.php?t=59981)
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Phrll
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Old February 4th, 2020, 05:14 AM
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Originally Posted by kbs666 View Post

I know PFS has been driving sales for Paizo but, IMO, it has been poisonous for tabletop role playing. It has put the idea into many player's heads that the goal is to break the game and that access to almost everything ever published should be available in a campaign.
I agree 100%. I've tried PFS and a couple other living campaigns but haven't joined any of them and don't intend to. I like the concept of having a consistent and "portable" character for convention play but I've run into players who are way overpowered for their level because the GM was too liberal with rewards, the GM is their best friend, etc. PFS also tends to spawn rules lawyers...
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Duggan
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Old February 4th, 2020, 07:10 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Farling View Post
I've gone through the same. I think the games companies like to reinvent every ~5-10 years so that they can sell a full set of books yet again. For those that have been around since first D&D it just gets repetitive.

The worst thing about PF(1) is that I've been buying PDFs rather than physical books, so the true scale of how many books I own is hidden - rather than being visible on bookshelves.
I suspect the occasional reboots are necessary for revenue, though. First of all, not everyone is going to use supplemental books and modules, so there's some segment of the population whose sales are more or less lost forever after the first sale. That one is, in part, one of the reasons most systems on HLC get only sporadic updates since it's not really driving new sales. Secondly, and this is not something I have any data to support, people seem more likely to pirate or secondhand supplemental items compared to the core book, where they like having a physical copy to pass around to the players. Lastly, the profit margin often isn't there. A single module requires a lot of work, artwork, etc, and then retails for a few dollars. The core book costs more to produce, but will likely sell more copies.
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