Tryanid warriors as heavy support.

For all you Tryanid players out there.

Just a question.. I won't give you my opinion in case if affects your
response. please respond. this might have an affect on the army builder
files for Tryanids....

When you create a mutable warriors unit from the back of the codex and give
the unit one heavy weapon (venom cannon or barbed strangler) what class is
it

a: Heavy Support
b: Elite
c: HQ

if you think it can be more than one say something like "b or c"

thanks

At 07:50 PM 6/7/2001 -0400, you wrote:
>When you create a mutable warriors unit from the back of the codex and
>give the unit one heavy weapon (venom cannon or barbed strangler) what
>class is it
>
>a: Heavy Support
>b: Elite
>c: HQ

As long as you have one 'heavy' weapon, the brood could be either
elite or HQ - as soon as you give it two, it becomes a choice between heavy
or HQ.


trent

One fine day in the middle of the night, mgrosh@mindspring.com got up to
write:

>For all you Tryanid players out there.
>
>Just a question.. I won't give you my opinion in case if affects your
>response. please respond. this might have an affect on the army builder
>files for Tryanids....
>
>When you create a mutable warriors unit from the back of the codex and give
>the unit one heavy weapon (venom cannon or barbed strangler) what class is
>it
>
>a: Heavy Support
>b: Elite
>c: HQ
>
>if you think it can be more than one say something like "b or c"

I think the answer is 'a or c'. Because:

1) The only place where it categorically states you need to take two
heavy weapons to become Heavy Support is, by the FAQs admission, wrong
in at least one area.

2) In the summary table, where it says "Heavy Weapons: HQ or Heavy
Support", would it have looked as nice if it had specified the singular,
i.e. "Heavy Weapon: HQ or Heavy Support"? No, it wouldn't. If I said I
had up to 4 tons of fishfood in my pockets, would you automatically
exclude the amount '1 ton' simple because I wouldn't say "I have 1 tons
of fishfood"? No, you wouldn't.

Let's get some reasoned debate going! If you want me to change the way
the files work, dust off your arguments and we can have a chat.

--
'Not Colin' McAlister | License to Skrill
Email: demandred@skrill.org | Visit http://www.skrill.org/ today!
-----------------------------+------------------------------------
"Dovie'andi se tovya sagain" - Robert Jordan's Wheel Of Time

I think the answer is 'a or c'. Because:

1) The only place where it categorically states you need to take two
heavy weapons to become Heavy Support is, by the FAQs admission, wrong
in at least one area.

-- Hmm.. you are correct that by the FAQ's admission that there are errors
on that page, but I think the easy answer to this is that two wrongs don't
make a right

2) In the summary table, where it says "Heavy Weapons: HQ or Heavy
Support", would it have looked as nice if it had specified the singular,
i.e. "Heavy Weapon: HQ or Heavy Support"? No, it wouldn't. If I said I
had up to 4 tons of fishfood in my pockets, would you automatically
exclude the amount '1 ton' simple because I wouldn't say "I have 1 tons
of fishfood"? No, you wouldn't.

-- That's what I thought first but, Why would they add "Heavy Weapon: Elite"
There is no change.. Its still the default... so I think they assumed you
would follow the rules from a normal warrior squad.

-- My final argument is this. With every group of mutable tryanids you can
create an exact duplicate of the normal broods from the front of the codex.
For example... if you wanted to make homagaunts or a normal hive tyrant you
can use the mutable Tryanid rules from the back and get the exact same thing
for the same price... except when you try to use army builder to make a
unit of warriors. Try to make a unit of warriors from the front and give it
one heavy weapon... then try to make the same unit from the mutable
warriors...

--What does everyone else think... come on and post your arguments.. one
way or the other.. If we want something changed or kept the same we need to
voice our opinions.

One fine day in the middle of the night, mgrosh@mindspring.com got up to
write:

>-- My final argument is this. With every group of mutable tryanids you can
>create an exact duplicate of the normal broods from the front of the codex.
>For example... if you wanted to make homagaunts or a normal hive tyrant you
>can use the mutable Tryanid rules from the back and get the exact same thing
>for the same price... except when you try to use army builder to make a
>unit of warriors. Try to make a unit of warriors from the front and give it
>one heavy weapon... then try to make the same unit from the mutable
>warriors...

Hmm, an excellent point.

Anyone on my side? Don't all shout

--
'Not Colin' McAlister | License to Skrill
Email: demandred@skrill.org | Visit http://www.skrill.org/ today!
-----------------------------+------------------------------------
"Dovie'andi se tovya sagain" - Robert Jordan's Wheel Of Time

I haven't heard any more arguments about this.... If you think it should be
fixed just hit reply and say so.

so far a few people have said that one heavy weapon means the unit can still
be an elite choice. I think if we get a couple more than changes might
happen....

so click that reply button it only takes a second. And if you don't agree
please post a message too.

-----Original Message-----
From: Colen 'Skrillboy' McAlister [mailto:demandred@skrill.org]
Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2001 6:34 PM
To: ab@support.wolflair.com
Subject: Re: [AB] Tryanid warriors as heavy support.


One fine day in the middle of the night, mgrosh@mindspring.com got up to
write:

>-- My final argument is this. With every group of mutable tryanids you can
>create an exact duplicate of the normal broods from the front of the codex.
>For example... if you wanted to make homagaunts or a normal hive tyrant you
>can use the mutable Tryanid rules from the back and get the exact same
thing
>for the same price... except when you try to use army builder to make a
>unit of warriors. Try to make a unit of warriors from the front and give
it
>one heavy weapon... then try to make the same unit from the mutable
>warriors...

Hmm, an excellent point.

Anyone on my side? Don't all shout

--
'Not Colin' McAlister | License to Skrill
Email: demandred@skrill.org | Visit http://www.skrill.org/ today!
-----------------------------+------------------------------------
"Dovie'andi se tovya sagain" - Robert Jordan's Wheel Of Time

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--- mgrosh@mindspring.com wrote:
> I haven't heard any more arguments about this.... If you think it
> should be
> fixed just hit reply and say so.
>
> so far a few people have said that one heavy weapon means the unit
> can still
> be an elite choice. I think if we get a couple more than changes
> might
> happen....
>
Don't know if this was said before....

If I may be so bold as to quote Codex:Tyranids... page 39, in the
Warrior Biomorph section, under the paragraph in italics title Notes:
"If more than one warrior in the brood is armed with a bio-weapon
marked * the brood counts as a Heavy Support choice."

Notice it said "more than one warrior"

The * marked weapons are: Barbed Strangler, Venom Cannon.

So my vote is: 1 "heavy" weapon - Elites or HQ. More than 1 "heavy"
weapon - Heavy Support

Now the question remains -- what if the brood has more than 1 heavy
weapon AND wings.....are they Heavy Support or Fast Attack? Which
takes precedence?

Ed

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At 10:03 12/06/2001 -0700, you wrote:

>Don't know if this was said before....
>
>If I may be so bold as to quote Codex:Tyranids... page 39, in the
>Warrior Biomorph section, under the paragraph in italics title Notes:
>"If more than one warrior in the brood is armed with a bio-weapon
>marked * the brood counts as a Heavy Support choice."
>
>Notice it said "more than one warrior"

The point is, that page is already wrong once. Using stupid metaphors
again, if you read in the Times that George W. Bush was <insert untrue
slanderous comment here>, would you then believe the rest of it's stories
with the same alacrity?


--
'Not Colin' McAlister - License to Skrill
Email: demandred@skrill.org | Visit http://www.skrill.org/ today!
-----------------------------+------------------------------------
"Dovie'andi se tovya sagain" - Robert Jordan's Wheel Of Time

-----Original Message-----
From: Ed Podsiad [mailto:chaos_star2000@yahoo.com]
Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2001 1:04 PM
To: ab@support.wolflair.com
Subject: RE: [AB] Tryanid warriors as heavy support.



--- mgrosh@mindspring.com wrote:
>> I haven't heard any more arguments about this.... If you think it
>> should be
>> fixed just hit reply and say so.
>>
>> so far a few people have said that one heavy weapon means the unit
>> can still
>> be an elite choice. I think if we get a couple more than changes
>> might
>> happen....
>>
>Don't know if this was said before....

>If I may be so bold as to quote Codex:Tyranids... page 39, in the
>Warrior Biomorph section, under the paragraph in italics title Notes:
>"If more than one warrior in the brood is armed with a bio-weapon
>marked * the brood counts as a Heavy Support choice."

>Notice it said "more than one warrior"

>The * marked weapons are: Barbed Strangler, Venom Cannon.

>So my vote is: 1 "heavy" weapon - Elites or HQ. More than 1 "heavy"
>weapon - Heavy Support




The answer to this is that in a faq: some one asked a question about heavy
weapons and the response said that the way it was written on page 39 was a
misprint. he didn't explain what exactly was misprinted but this is why
army builder uses the table from page 38.
however the question asked is very confusing and does not even mention elite
class and the answer does not refer to it either.
http://www.games-workshop.com/40kuni...s/tyrqanda.htm
In my opinion the question and answer was very poorly written and answered
without making much sense. Especially applied to the one heavy weapon
argument. But the rulz boyz have been know to make mistakes and probably
need to update their faq. But from listing to this groups responses and
those on portent.net forums almost 100% of the Tryanid players agree that
one heavy weapon still makes the group elite.
also even when following the table it says Heavy Weapons. I tend to think
this means 2 or more. The argument against this is "why didn't they make a
line that says heavy weapon --- elite?" Well... That's kinda redundant.
If it stays elite why would you add a line about it changing class? also if
they wanted it to include one heavy weapon the would have written it like
this
"Heavy Weapon(s) --- Heavy Support or HQ"



>Now the question remains -- what if the brood has more than 1 heavy
>weapon AND wings.....are they Heavy Support or Fast Attack? Which
>takes precedence?



To answer this look at the table on 38
if you add wings its becomes either fast attack or HQ
if you add heavy weapons it becomes heavy support or HQ

so if you add both it can only count as HQ... That's the only class that
has both.

--- Colen 'Skrillboy' McAlister <demandred@skrill.org> wrote:
> At 10:03 12/06/2001 -0700, you wrote:
>
> >Don't know if this was said before....
> >
> >If I may be so bold as to quote Codex:Tyranids... page 39, in the
> >Warrior Biomorph section, under the paragraph in italics title
> Notes:
> >"If more than one warrior in the brood is armed with a bio-weapon
> >marked * the brood counts as a Heavy Support choice."
> >
> >Notice it said "more than one warrior"
>
> The point is, that page is already wrong once.

It is? That's news to me! Where?

Anyhow, I would think that the actual Army List entry would take
precedence anyway, and that states that you may have 1 "heavy" weapon
and still by HQ or Elite, so......



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