Orks - Lootas vehicle options

> > 'black codex'??
>
> The "black codex" is the lists at the back of the main rulebook. The main
> rulebook is black.

A-ha - I see!! Arent those army lists in the rulebook redundant when the
relevent codex is available??

Because if they arent then the ability to upgraded a looted Basilisk with
Indirect Fire no longer exists as it only appears in the IG codex and not
the rulebook.

You cant have it both ways - either use the rulebook army lists or use the
codexes.


Jimi

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At 14:30 21/08/2001 +0100, you wrote:
> > >AB datafiles follow the codex/rulebook and OFFICIAL clarifications. If it
> > >aint official then it should be removed.
> >
> > Anything printed in the Q&A is also incorporated - for example, Chaos
> > Rhinos get Combi-Bolters instead of Storm Bolters because of this.
>
>IIRC, this was clarified in a White Dwarf issue and thus is official - 95%
>of the online Q&A aint.

I don't RC, unfortunately. Which issue of WD was it clarified in?



--
Colen 'Skrillboy' McAlister, demandred@skrill.org
http://www.skrill.org/, http://www.incompetence-central.co.uk/
1 = 2, for large values of 1.

> The "infamous" online Q&A, I'm afraid. Why is it infamous?

Its 'infamous' because only those parts of the Q&A that have been published
in White Dwarf or similar magazine/book are considered official.


Jimi

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In this article -= JIMI =- <james.tubman@btinternet.com> wrote
>A-ha - I see!! Arent those army lists in the rulebook redundant when the
>relevent codex is available??
>
>Because if they arent then the ability to upgraded a looted Basilisk with
>Indirect Fire no longer exists as it only appears in the IG codex and not
>the rulebook.
>
>You cant have it both ways - either use the rulebook army lists or use the
>codexes.

Now you're asking for consistency, which is the last thing we can expect
from GW

Strictly by the wording, lootas shouldn't be allowed to take the
vehicles since they are listed under the vehicle rather than options
section. On the other hand this presupposes that GW was using the phrase
'options' in a very strict sense whereas all evidence points to GW being
anything but precise

I argued in the past with Colen that the options referred to should be
the codex rather than the blackdex options and pointed to the indirect
fire rule as proof positive, but to no avail I think Colen came up
with a very cunning response that shot my argument down in flames,
albeit indirectly. (g) This would make the looted chimera cheaper, not
that I'd ever loot a chimera when their are better things to loot.

On a related note KOS ors can only ever take one looted rhino since the
mandatory addition of grot riggers takes them to 51+ points. I was
messing about creating a KOS army from the normal list by using 3 looted
rhinos when the smoke launcher discrepancy hit me. My rationale was this
was an ork warband in the throws of becoming a KOS but didn't benefit
from the KOS special rules but got mobbing up etc instead. In 1800
points I can take 93 models with 4 trukks, 3 Rhinos and 1 battlewagon.
And the rhinos have benefits over normal trukks. Just because I could.

Cheers

Grotfang, not so humble ork warlord.

> Now you're asking for consistency, which is the last thing we can expect
> from GW

Both Lootas and Looted Vehicles mention the rulebook - only AB allows you to
mix the rulebook and codex options, so it isnt GW at fault here (for once!!)

> Strictly by the wording, lootas shouldn't be allowed to take the
> vehicles since they are listed under the vehicle rather than options
> section.

Thats my take on it too.

> On the other hand this presupposes that GW was using the phrase
> 'options' in a very strict sense whereas all evidence points to GW being
> anything but precise

Hehehehe

> I argued in the past with Colen that the options referred to should be
> the codex rather than the blackdex options and pointed to the indirect
> fire rule as proof positive, but to no avail

I must have missed that thread - anyway, I'm with you on this one :-)

> On a related note KOS ors can only ever take one looted rhino since the
> mandatory addition of grot riggers takes them to 51+ points.

Arent Grot Riggers classed as a vehicle upgrade (albeit mandatory for KoS)
and not an inherent part of a Rhino?? Thus you should be able to take a
looted Rhino at 50pts but it automatically gets the riggers and changed to
52pts??


Jimi

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In this article -= JIMI =- <james.tubman@btinternet.com> wrote
>> On a related note KOS ors can only ever take one looted rhino since the
>> mandatory addition of grot riggers takes them to 51+ points.
>
>Arent Grot Riggers classed as a vehicle upgrade (albeit mandatory for KoS)
>and not an inherent part of a Rhino?? Thus you should be able to take a
>looted Rhino at 50pts but it automatically gets the riggers and changed to
>52pts??

Indeed, so you can only take one in a KOS army since it is the cost of
the vehicle and any upgrades that count not the base price of the
vehicle.

Cheers

Grotfang, not so humble ork warlord.

> Indeed, so you can only take one in a KOS army since it is the cost of
> the vehicle and any upgrades that count not the base price of the
> vehicle.

IMO, the vehicle is bought as per the standard Looted Vehicle rules but
automatically get Grot Riggers as per Orky vehicle upgrades.


Jimi

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Unforgiven - http://groups.yahoo.com/group/unforgiven/
VDR - http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gw-vdr/

At 19:13 21/08/2001 +0100, you wrote:

>On a related note KOS ors can only ever take one looted rhino since the
>mandatory addition of grot riggers takes them to 51+ points.

It's the base cost of the vehicle, not the cost after upgrades etc., that
matters.


--
Colen 'Skrillboy' McAlister, demandred@skrill.org
http://www.skrill.org/, http://www.incompetence-central.co.uk/
1 = 2, for large values of 1.

At 18:25 21/08/2001 +0100, you wrote:
> > > 'black codex'??
> >
> > The "black codex" is the lists at the back of the main rulebook. The main
> > rulebook is black.
>
>A-ha - I see!! Arent those army lists in the rulebook redundant when the
>relevent codex is available??
>
>Because if they arent then the ability to upgraded a looted Basilisk with
>Indirect Fire no longer exists as it only appears in the IG codex and not
>the rulebook.
>
>You cant have it both ways - either use the rulebook army lists or use the
>codexes.

The Q&A specifically says they can use the Indirect Fire upgrade. That's a
good point, though; the looted vehicles shouldn't be able to take the Smoke
Launchers. The normal Loota unit still uses the black codex lists, because
it specifically states that the units should come from the "Warhammer
40,000" rulebook.


--
Colen 'Skrillboy' McAlister, demandred@skrill.org
http://www.skrill.org/, http://www.incompetence-central.co.uk/
1 = 2, for large values of 1.

> The Q&A specifically says they can use the Indirect Fire upgrade.

Thats because its refering to the codex entry, not the Black Codex entry.

> The normal Loota unit still uses the black codex lists, because
> it specifically states that the units should come from the "Warhammer
> 40,000" rulebook.

Whereas thats very true, GW do make the claim that rulebook army lists will
become invalid when codexes are released.


Jimi

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