weekly updates - another broken promise?

[MNBlockHead]

I think LWD is too tied to Paizo to have taken kbs666's tact.

For myself personally, RealmWorks meets my needs and I'm not struggling with any bugs. Sure, there are features I would like to see added, mainly calendars, but nothing to prevent me from using it.

At the same time other similar products are getting better and better. Most are online only, so I worry about lock in, and I can't imagine the work it would take to migrate my homebrew world or Rappan Athuk, but if I choose to start a new campaign, it looks like there may be other options in future.

I don't see the point in getting upset about a software developers update schedule. Most of us got exactly what they said we would get at the time we bought it and LWD has a generous trial period.

If another product comes along with as good or better features for my needs as RealmWorks, I'll consider moving my next campaign to it. But it certainly isn't going to be because of lack of updates on a forum.

Besides, any update I would actually care about would have an upgrade prompt when I fire up the software. Getting updates on their continued struggles with Paizo and personal illnesses doesn't help me. I don't see the point of them.

[dungeonguru]

Originally Posted by Valyar

I don't care for the CM as it will not contain any of the systems I play. I want more features in the product and even more flexibility in converting content, moving data and importing/exporting stuff.

Not to be too pedantic here but I'm in the same boat - I don't care about the CM - HOWEVER, it seems that all the great enhancements are contingent on the CM getting finalized first. LW is prioritizing it for some reason before we can get that stuff, or so it appears.

So paradoxically, we're all rooting for the CM to just get released already so we can see other enhancements get their day in the sun regardless of whether we're going to use it.

[Merion]

Originally Posted by dungeonguru

Not to be too pedantic here but I'm in the same boat - I don't care about the CM - HOWEVER, it seems that all the great enhancements are contingent on the CM getting finalized first. LW is prioritizing it for some reason before we can get that stuff, or so it appears.

So paradoxically, we're all rooting for the CM to just get released already so we can see other enhancements get their day in the sun regardless of whether we're going to use it.

A thousand times this!

[daplunk]

Originally Posted by kbs666

the CM wasn't the revenue they were after. At this point all the Paizo stuff they've held up launching the CM is for a dead system. They could have launched the CM without Paizo and been bringing in whatever revenue they could while waiting for Paizo to get its own digital act together and at the very least giving their existing users

I disagree with this in part. DnDB and Fantasy Grounds have proven that there is a high demand for pre-entered content. So much so that it shocked the developers to a certain extent. The Master Tier on DnDB is a whopping $454.15 but people are still buying it in droves and then paying a subscription on top of that.

The Paizo issue is significant though. It was the right decision at the time but the market has shifted. The Pathfinder community is split and decreased significantly in terms of market share. LWD simply could not move fast enough to keep up with 5e though and have missed that boat it would seem. Sadly. There's still significant money to be made there for a few years at least.

LWD can absolutely make money off the CM. But they need to remain flexible and fast. Two things which don't appear on their resume currently.

[Maidhc O Casain]

Speak for yourself... At this point all the Paizo stuff they've held up launching the CM is for a dead system.

I mean no disrespect here, and am not trying to start ANY sort of edition war. But please speak for YOURself. You are correct that PF is losing market share. And that no NEW pre-published stuff is coming out for PF (Classic). But there are lots of us still playing it, buying published content that we don't have yet, and making our own stuff. Speaking for MYself - the only person for whom I really have the right to speak - I got tired of learning a new system every four or five years, and of shelling out hundreds of dollars for them - only to turn around and do it all again. When Paizo launched PF I decided that it was the last d20 system in which I'd invest. Luckily for me, there's enough out there for it that even if I never made anything for myself or dipped into 3rd party stuff I could play new to me PF stuff until the day I die.

For those playing 5e, PF2, M&M, Savage Worlds, HERO (actually I do play those last two, along with Fate) - I sincerely hope that RW and any other tools you want get developed for those games! But - again repsectfully - please don't be hatin' on PF just because you want something else. There's room for everyone, and in the end all of them are games, meant for entertainment and escape.

Finally, I will repeat my first point from before and then I'll shut my pie hole . We asked for updates EVEN WHEN THERE WAS NO NEW INFORMATION. So it seems counterproductive to then complain when some of those updates tell us the at there is no new information.

[Cammagno]

Originally Posted by kbs666

Speak for yourself. Many of us care very little for the CM and care greatly about almost everything else.

I agree. I don't care about CM.
The only reason for which I hope they will finally do it, is that i hope that after that they will concentrate on things that really matter for me.

[kbs666]

Originally Posted by Maidhc O Casain

I mean no disrespect here, and am not trying to start ANY sort of edition war. But please speak for YOURself. You are correct that PF is losing market share. And that no NEW pre-published stuff is coming out for PF (Classic). But there are lots of us still playing it, buying published content that we don't have yet, and making our own stuff. Speaking for MYself - the only person for whom I really have the right to speak - I got tired of learning a new system every four or five years, and of shelling out hundreds of dollars for them - only to turn around and do it all again. When Paizo launched PF I decided that it was the last d20 system in which I'd invest. Luckily for me, there's enough out there for it that even if I never made anything for myself or dipped into 3rd party stuff I could play new to me PF stuff until the day I die.

For those playing 5e, PF2, M&M, Savage Worlds, HERO (actually I do play those last two, along with Fate) - I sincerely hope that RW and any other tools you want get developed for those games! But - again repsectfully - please don't be hatin' on PF just because you want something else. There's room for everyone, and in the end all of them are games, meant for entertainment and escape.

Finally, I will repeat my first point from before and then I'll shut my pie hole . We asked for updates EVEN WHEN THERE WAS NO NEW INFORMATION. So it seems counterproductive to then complain when some of those updates tell us the at there is no new information.

Let me be clear, I'm not shifting from PF1 any time soon. I have way too much invested in it and absolutely hate PF2. 5e might be a viable alternative but switching my entire campaign over would just be too much work.

But I cannot see LWD or any of the other digital vendors selling a lot of additional content for PF1 going much past this year.

[Maidhc O Casain]

Originally Posted by kbs666

But I cannot see LWD or any of the other digital vendors selling a lot of additional content for PF1 going much past this year.

This might be true. I hope not .

But even if it is, just for myself the things they've already said are coming out will be enough to last me for years at my current rate of play. I play almost exclusively on an online forum, posting rates are (at best) about one a week per player and GM. So RotRL and Razor's Edge alone would probably last me until I expire of old age .

In the meantime, I use RW for building my own worlds. I'll probably never run a game in them, or use them in a story or novel, but I still have fun putting them together, and RW is a near perfect tool for organizing them.

[kbs666]

Even if LWD never does another thing it's still a great tool for me, I want that to be very clear. My main campaign world is in RW and I cannot imagine ever migrating it. It's just too big and complicated. I might someday export the whole thing to a website just to let others see it but I cannot imagine doing session prep in another tool at this point.

[stuartwaring]

Originally Posted by kbs666

But I cannot see LWD or any of the other digital vendors selling a lot of additional content for PF1 going much past this year.

Our group is, I suspect, one of many that has invested a lot of money in PF1 over the years. We have no desire to try, then invest heavily in a new system. With the adventure paths, which can take us 6 - 9 months or more to complete, there is plenty of already published material to keep us playing for a really long time! This, in my opinion, will still generate a decent income stream for probably years to come, as I am (still - and for the foreseeable future) absolutely prepared to pay for the convenience of having the adventure paths entered for me.