MRPS in L5R

--- In cardvault@yahoogroups.com, Ramón Peña <kunimon@w...>
wrote:
> Factions aren't good for sorting at all, because now half the
> Dragons (for instance) are also Brotherhood and they come out of
> sequence.

While Factions may be bad for a computer program, their great when
sorting cards in RL. No one puts their Dragon Monks in a different
pile than Just Dragons because they all have the same border. Are
you
saying the problem is with the people sorting thier cards? If so, I
think a lot of people will give up on CV because they can't get the
program to sort like they do. No one wants to reorganize their
collection because some program is telling them that a group of clans
obviously from the same faction is actually two different factions.

> Having an apparently non-Dragon personality sorted with the Dragons
> would simply raise a flagg, you would check the card details and
> see the notes explaining. Then, if you are simply sorting your
> binders, you would choose what you want to do. I think that's the
> better of two worlds: you get all the data you need to make an
> informed decision

First, having the non-Dragon sorted with the Dragons will lead to a
lot of frustation because it's not where they'll be looking. When
they find out, there first response will be, "How the hell did it get
there?" The arguement only makes sense for people who collected
between AoD and JE. A lot of the Gold generation who just happen to
get their hands on the card won't understand, sort of like what's
happening lately with Rob.

Secondly, different sorting patterns for RL and CV will most like
cause resentment. The typical user wants a interface that can be
tailored to his collection. In the case of L5R, that collection has
been put into a particular order for a very long time. Given the
choice between changing how they file their cards in RL and finding a
different inventory program, it will be easier to find a different
inventory program.

> So to resume my point: card description should have the card text
> "as written"; stats should be modified according to any MRP or
> errata.

For deck building, yes. The Merge Duplicates option does a fantastic
job of this. For Inventory Management, where MRPs mean absolutely
nothing, and what's on the face of the physical means everything, I
couldn't disagree more.




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--- Alex Durden <hunter.rose@att.net> wrote:
> --- In cardvault@yahoogroups.com, Ramón Peña <kunimon@w...>
> wrote:
> > Factions aren't good for sorting at all, because now half the
> > Dragons (for instance) are also Brotherhood and they come out of
> > sequence.
>
> While Factions may be bad for a computer program, their great when
> sorting cards in RL. No one puts their Dragon Monks in a different
> pile than Just Dragons because they all have the same border.

Someone who is more interested in playing Brotherhood than Dragon may disagree
with you on that point.

> Are you
> saying the problem is with the people sorting thier cards? If so, I
> think a lot of people will give up on CV because they can't get the
> program to sort like they do. No one wants to reorganize their
> collection because some program is telling them that a group of clans
> obviously from the same faction is actually two different factions.

Well... If you want to generate the border data for 6K+ cards, I am sure that
Rob would be willing to add the data.

> Secondly, different sorting patterns for RL and CV will most like
> cause resentment.

Or you could just spend a little bit of effort to filter only dragon
personalities when doing your dragon cards, and you will get all the dragons in
one place. It takes a little bit longer, but not much.

I have never seen a single piece of software that does exactly what I want that
I have not written myself... or even those for that matter, since I have never
written bug-free code. If someone is going to abandon a piece of software
because it does not do *exactly* what they want, then they are certainly not
going to find any piece of software to fit the bill. CV is a lot better than
most of the alternatives.

> The typical user wants a interface that can be
> tailored to his collection. In the case of L5R, that collection has
> been put into a particular order for a very long time. Given the
> choice between changing how they file their cards in RL and finding a
> different inventory program, it will be easier to find a different
> inventory program.

Since no other inventory program is going to do that either, how is that going
to work? Are they going to make their own Access database and put in all the
cards? I actually did that for Imperial, back in the day.

> > So to resume my point: card description should have the card text
> > "as written"; stats should be modified according to any MRP or
> > errata.
>
> For deck building, yes. The Merge Duplicates option does a fantastic
> job of this. For Inventory Management, where MRPs mean absolutely
> nothing, and what's on the face of the physical means everything, I
> couldn't disagree more.

Short of making two sets of stats ('printed' and 'play' for instance) there is
no easy answer to this. Compromises were made in an attempt to get all this
data available to people.

Any volunteers to correct all the cards to collect the printed traits for all
the old cards?


=====
---

Kuni Tetsu
Clan War rules guy
Moderator of ClanWar-l

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Kuni Tetsu wrote:
>
>
> Short of making two sets of stats ('printed' and 'play' for instance) there is
> no easy answer to this. Compromises were made in an attempt to get all this
> data available to people.
>
> Any volunteers to correct all the cards to collect the printed traits for all
> the old cards?

At last yahoogroups changed by status from digest to individual. It has
taken a few days!

Regarding Kuni Tetsu's question. Well, if we all agree this is the way
to do in the first place, there is really no hurry to do it. We can do
it little by little, as inconstencies are discovered. OTOH, if someone
was to do it all at once, kudos for him. I think, that we should wait
for the definitive data for Diamond Edition for that, because there can
be quite a few changes there.

-Ramom

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> --- Alex Durden <hunter.rose@att.net> wrote:
> > --- In cardvault@yahoogroups.com, Ramón Peña <kunimon@w...>
> > wrote:
> > > Factions aren't good for sorting at all, because now half the
> > > Dragons (for instance) are also Brotherhood and they come out of
> > > sequence.
> >
> > While Factions may be bad for a computer program, their great when
> > sorting cards in RL. No one puts their Dragon Monks in a different
> > pile than Just Dragons because they all have the same border.

What I meant, Alex, is that *right now* if you sort any number of
personalities with CV you are going to get a number of them, CV puts a
lot of them on the top of the list as "Brotherhood, Dragon", then
"Crab", then "Crane", then "Dragon". That one card like Kokujin comes
also out of sequence in addition to that is inconsequential. In fact
there are a lot of personalities with the "Shadowlands" trait that
belong also to a different faction so you are going to have that problem
always.

-Ramon

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Kuni Tetsu wrote:
>
>
> Well... If you want to generate the border data for 6K+ cards, I am sure that
> Rob would be willing to add the data.

Well, actually it would be great if that was finally implemented and not
too hard to do actually because, for instance you can have all the cards
with the "Follower" type to get the "Follower" border, etc.

If you want to create a "border" category fast and easy you need to set
it thusly:

Border Type; sybtype
------ -------------
Ring Ring
Action Action
Kiho Kiho
Spell Spell
Black Scroll Spell; Black Scroll
Follower Follower
Ancestor Ancestor
Sensei Sensei
Event Event
Region Region
Holding Holding
Oracle Holding; Oracle

For Personalities and Strongholds (there are many more exceptions here)
---------------------------------

Faction Border:
------- ------
Crane Crane
Crab Crab
Dragon Dragon
Lion Lion
Mantis/YA Mantis/YA
Phoenix Phoenix
Scorpion Scorpion
Unicorn Unicorn
Ratling Ratling
Naga Naga

*Secondary faction* (only to kick-in if there is none of the above)

Brotherhood Brotherhood
No faction Unaligned
Shadowlands Unaligned
Ninja Unaligned
Toturi Army Toturi Army (only for one expansion)
Spirit Unaligned

I don't think I have forgotten any right now. Perhaps we could make a
distinction between the "old style" borders and the "new style" border
for Pearl Edition on, but I think it is unnecesary.

BTW, all cards of the 'Kiho' type should be also of the 'Action' type.
Kihos are only a subtype of Actions, really. That needs to be added.

After that, you only need a little fine tuning, like changing the
Imperial Edition "The Egg of Pan Ku" to "Item" border, and likewise with
all the odd cards.

-Ramon

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