Pathfinder 2nd Edition

[Fuzzy]

All pretty frustrating when this is what they said previously:

Originally Posted by rob

The big problem with a purely web-based approach is that everyone *has* to have an internet connection. There are still many gaming venues, especially large Cons, where internet access is unavailable, horribly slow, and/or expensive. So a purely web-based model is hamstrung out of the gate due to this limitation. We're using a hybrid approach with our upcoming Realm Works product, and we're looking at hybrid solutions for future use with Hero Lab as well.

[Azhrei]

Originally Posted by Farling

Not all of us like, or or able, to be connected online all the time. Anyway, public wi-fi is inherently insecure.

No, it's not.

You're insecure when you're going out of town for a long weekend and your girlfriend chose that weekend to host a big party... and you find out her exes have been invited.

Your phone is unsecure when you're the girlfriend and you find out that your boyfriend has been reading the party texts on your phone...



Of course, it's become common in the media to confuse these two and so they are frequently used interchangeably nowadays. Sort of how "hacker" and "cracker" meant different things previously, but now are treated synonymously.

As someone who thinks words matter, all I can say is, "Sigh."

[ShadowChemosh]

Originally Posted by Fuzzy

All pretty frustrating when this is what they said previously:

A post from 6 years ago. Guess what the world has moved forward in 6 years of time since that post. Grandmothers use iPads and tablets and social media sites and are "always" connected. I honestly can not think of a single person who is somehow not always connected by a smart phone, tablet, or computer to the internet. Not saying it does not exist but I think you have to "try" and not be connected these days actually (yes I get someone is going to say they are not connected but its rare now). In the years to come that will be even less and less people.

Most services are moving to take advantage of the fact that most people are constantly connected to the net through wifi or LTE. More get connected each year and the cell networks are getting faster and faster. Hell I know people that stream 4K movies using 5G from Version using a tablet as a hotspot.

Desktop software and apps for tablets/phones are going away. More and more software is moving to some type of cloud/web based solution.

I am not saying I 100% agree or like the change myself. More and more subscriptions I have to pay for is getting really tiresome. Honestly even the stupid little $2 dollar HLO cost is irksome actually. None of that changes the idea that apps are moving to online only services and LW need to change with the times.

[RavenX]

Originally Posted by Toblakai

Must be a real backwater then. No cell phones either? A night of gaming will use less that 500k of data.

I am really looking forward to the features an online model can offer that a desktop one can't.

I live out in the countryside. I have farm land all around me. And I'm lucky if the 30 mbps internet I get at home is running at 3 mbps on a given night. What the cable company promised and delivered... two very separate things. Verizon is no better. Both sides talk big on internet out here and deliver nothing, we don't even have fios and until the city actually sues them over it, we won't see it anytime soon.

To say its a backwater is an understatement. The store we game at is kind of in the ghetto. Its a nice store, but its also the kind of place you can't have nice things at. I had installed a screw mounted pencil sharpener in the place and a week later it was gone. Someone setup a dedicated computer for people to use for printing sheets for RPGs, less than a month later it was found stripped of internal components. And there are no cell phone towers near the place, so we don't even get a signal in the place when we game there. However, it is the closest place to where I live and doesn't involve an hour long drive to a place with internet access and none of my players want to spend more on gas (or pay road tolls) to game where there is internet. We take our own stuff and it comes home with us. We have a dedicated computer and printer we bring just to print sheets. The store is so ghetto we build our own terrain and it comes home with us. The terrain pieces in the store get broken all the time by kids who hang out up there and have nothing to do with their time.

[Toblakai]

Originally Posted by RavenX

To say its a backwater is an understatement. The store we game at is kind of in the ghetto. Its a nice store, but its also the kind of place you can't have nice things at. I had installed a screw mounted pencil sharpener in the place and a week later it was gone. Someone setup a dedicated computer for people to use for printing sheets for RPGs, less than a month later it was found stripped of internal components. And there are no cell phone towers near the place, so we don't even get a signal in the place when we game there. However, it is the closest place to where I live and doesn't involve an hour long drive to a place with internet access and none of my players want to spend more on gas (or pay road tolls) to game where there is internet. We take our own stuff and it comes home with us. We have a dedicated computer and printer we bring just to print sheets. The store is so ghetto we build our own terrain and it comes home with us. The terrain pieces in the store get broken all the time by kids who hang out up there and have nothing to do with their time.

Ugg.. I'm sorry for you, I don't know how I could live without d20pfsrd.com during a gaming session

I guess it re-enforces GM fiat though.

[khagler]

I'm a brand new Hero Lab user for Pathfinder. If Starfinder were supported, I'd have paid for that too. What I won't ever pay for or use is an online service. I want to use what I've paid for any time and any place I want, without being subject to external forces. With an online service, you're subject to:

1. internet connectivity between you and the servers. Not just existence of a wi-fi connection or Ethernet jack in whatever place you're playing, but also things like a cable modem experiencing one of the many unexpected outages cable companies are prone to in the middle of a game session.
2. The availability of the servers. There are posts here about planned outages for maintenance, and it's only a matter of time before there's a significant unplanned outage due to a bug. Lone Wolf is a small company in a small niche market--they obviously can't manage the uptime of Amazon or Google, and it would be unfair to expect them to.
3. The whim of the company. They can simply delete anyone's account whenever they feel like it. Sure, it would be crazy for them to do so, and I have no reason to think they would now, but who knows what will happen in the future?

[Toblakai]

Originally Posted by khagler

I'm a brand new Hero Lab user for Pathfinder. If Starfinder were supported, I'd have paid for that too. What I won't ever pay for or use is an online service. I want to use what I've paid for any time and any place I want, without being subject to external forces. With an online service, you're subject to:

1. internet connectivity between you and the servers. Not just existence of a wi-fi connection or Ethernet jack in whatever place you're playing, but also things like a cable modem experiencing one of the many unexpected outages cable companies are prone to in the middle of a game session.
2. The availability of the servers. There are posts here about planned outages for maintenance, and it's only a matter of time before there's a significant unplanned outage due to a bug. Lone Wolf is a small company in a small niche market--they obviously can't manage the uptime of Amazon or Google, and it would be unfair to expect them to.
3. The whim of the company. They can simply delete anyone's account whenever they feel like it. Sure, it would be crazy for them to do so, and I have no reason to think they would now, but who knows what will happen in the future?

Welcome to the 20th century!

Point 3 is also true of HLC, they can shut down the license server anytime..

[Azhrei]

Originally Posted by Toblakai

Point 3 is also true of HLC, they can shut down the license server anytime..

And when they do, some enterprising individual will hack the code and remove the requirement for a license. It's not very difficult...

Which is undoubtedly one of the motivating factors for moving to a monthly subscription plan. Once you no longer have the program or data stored on your own device, they can control it and do whatever they want with it at any time.

(I had written a couple paragraphs about how free software with subscriptions for updates and a "features-for-hire" service are the only sustainable model in the long term because it's the only one that puts the interest of customers first, but it was off topic so I removed it.)

[khagler]

Originally Posted by Toblakai

Welcome to the 20th century!

Point 3 is also true of HLC, they can shut down the license server anytime..

It's actually not, because shutting down the license server wouldn't have any effect on your ability to use the software and data you've already paid for and downloaded.

[Minous]

Two other issues, if the licensing server dies, existing installs dont suddenly stop working, and offline software isnt subject to a host of outside issues (server maintenance, ISP issues, or general wifi/network issues). Having an offline option means that I can play at GenCon. Lets see HLO work at GenCon 2018 (not trying to insult LW, just a fact). Having software as a service (ie subscription) is an obnoxious approach. I dont want to pay monthly for something, because odds are in the long term I will be paying 2 or 3 times more for the same software if I payed up front.