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Krothos
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Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 396

Old June 21st, 2020, 07:16 PM
Just so you know, SC replied to me. He is indicated he doesn't have the free time he used to have to provide regular updates to the Community Pack. He will still be around for any major breaking errors, working with LW to correct them (such as the infinite loop error that happened not too long ago).
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Meatpuppet
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Old June 22nd, 2020, 07:34 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Krothos View Post
Just so you know, SC replied to me. He is indicated he doesn't have the free time he used to have to provide regular updates to the Community Pack. He will still be around for any major breaking errors, working with LW to correct them (such as the infinite loop error that happened not too long ago).
Thanks for the heads up

I sure hope someone with his talent will pick up where he left

This is an amazing ressource and the reason I sticked with HL for so long
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Thorneldrich
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Old June 22nd, 2020, 08:24 AM
So basically the Packs are no longer going to be updated since 1e is no longer the current version of the game. Why does this not surprise me? TSR/WotC did the same thing every version.

I realize the Packs were totally user-made & I am not criticizing any who contributed to them. All the work that was put in to them was amazing & deeply appreciated by those of us not gifted with the knowledge or skills to enter/alter coding to add these wonder things to a wonderful program.

Its just the overall disregard by Paizo & LWD for the moneys put out on all the 1e supplements & rule-books by folks who loved the PF 1e system. PF 2e looks & plays like a Pen & Paper video-game adaption, not a RPG (again IMHO, but no one cares about the opinion of an old school grognard anymore, yes?).

HLO is the new cash cow so HL Classic is SOL. This is why I have stopped supporting LWD. I'm just waiting for the announcement that HL Classic will no longer have updates or support as well. HLO is a pure money-revenue design. You now can no longer even claim you own a usage license, now you just "rent per month" access. Guess they aren't concerned with those folks without large monthly incomes. Those of use who have fixed or minimal income sources/jobs aren't worth their time anymore. Neither are those folks who don't have unlimited online access 24/7.

Yeah this is a rant, I realize that now that I have re-read it. Sorry, just bites to be abandoned yet again by companies trying to re-invent the wheel (or in this case a RPG line). Being old (50+) gives me a lot of perspective on this RPG scene, seems the same trends repeat themselves endlessly.
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Farling
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Old June 23rd, 2020, 04:13 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thorneldrich View Post
So basically the Packs are no longer going to be updated since 1e is no longer the current version of the game. Why does this not surprise me?

I realize the Packs were totally user-made & I am not criticizing any who contributed to them.
These two statements are contradictory!

By complaining that the community pack is no longer being updated is a direct criticism of the person(s) who contribute/maintain them!

Farling

Author of the Realm Works Import (http://forums.wolflair.com/showthread.php?t=58156) and Output tools (http://forums.wolflair.com/showthread.php?t=59981)
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Thorneldrich
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Old June 23rd, 2020, 07:02 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Farling View Post
These two statements are contradictory!

By complaining that the community pack is no longer being updated is a direct criticism of the person(s) who contribute/maintain them!

No, the complaint was not (meant to be) aimed at Shadow or his work (he has a RL & can't be expected to maintain what is in truth a dying software line), it was aimed at LWD for basically abandoning HLC (exactly the opposite of their claimed position) for the cash-cow HLO is. HLC was a limited cash source since once bought, no further money came in unless they released something new. The Upkeep, updates to existing releases, et al, produced no revenue. HLO on the other hand is like a MMO game, each month the suckers (um... users) line up to pay their user-fees & all LWD has to do is maintain the servers/data, release sets, & collect the cash. WAY more profitable to bleed each user monthly. Also this way if you stop paying your monthly user fees, you have NOTHING to show for all the $$$ you put out. You can't use anything in HLO & anything produced while you were a paid user unless you printed it out (& then only under extremely restricted use due to the user agreement of HLO).

Realize that in a year anyone using HLO pays more then they did for the Pathfinder 1e data set & a load of the suppliments & get nothing but online access to data sets. No pay=no access. No offline work using HLO is possible. Sweet setup for LWD & the "shaft" for the rest of us.
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Thorneldrich
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Old June 23rd, 2020, 07:13 AM
To ShadowChemosh, I in no way intended to criticize your work. How can you be expected to donate your time & effort to something (data/software packs) that is honestly already abandoned by its developer?
You have a RL to maintain, All the work you put into the Packs have been greatly appreciated. You showed more concern for the users of HLC then LWD has & I personally will always be grateful for your efforts. Thank you.

Last edited by Thorneldrich; June 23rd, 2020 at 07:15 AM.
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Minous
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Join Date: May 2015
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Old June 23rd, 2020, 08:24 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thorneldrich View Post
No, the complaint was not (meant to be) aimed at Shadow or his work (he has a RL & can't be expected to maintain what is in truth a dying software line), it was aimed at LWD for basically abandoning HLC (exactly the opposite of their claimed position) for the cash-cow HLO is. HLC was a limited cash source since once bought, no further money came in unless they released something new. The Upkeep, updates to existing releases, et al, produced no revenue. HLO on the other hand is like a MMO game, each month the suckers (um... users) line up to pay their user-fees & all LWD has to do is maintain the servers/data, release sets, & collect the cash. WAY more profitable to bleed each user monthly. Also this way if you stop paying your monthly user fees, you have NOTHING to show for all the $$$ you put out. You can't use anything in HLO & anything produced while you were a paid user unless you printed it out (& then only under extremely restricted use due to the user agreement of HLO).

Realize that in a year anyone using HLO pays more then they did for the Pathfinder 1e data set & a load of the suppliments & get nothing but online access to data sets. No pay=no access. No offline work using HLO is possible. Sweet setup for LWD & the "shaft" for the rest of us.
Me thinks you need to check your math. At the standard sub price for HLO it will take 20 years to equal the cost of what I have spent on HCL.
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charlieluce
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Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,177

Old June 23rd, 2020, 03:16 PM
The $5 a month I pay for my Patron account means that my players can pay $1.25 a month to play in my PF2 games and the only one who has to buy data packages is me. Running PF1, each of the players had to buy all the data packages for everything they needed for their characters. I'm pretty sure that those five players spent more than $15 a year apiece on HLC for Pathfinder.

Currently Running: Pathfinder Second Edition
Currently Playing: D&D 4e,
Pathfinder First Edition
Former Games: D&D 5e, Mutants & Masterminds (2E & 3E), Savage Worlds

Last edited by charlieluce; June 23rd, 2020 at 03:28 PM. Reason: Tyop monster
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Thorneldrich
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Old June 25th, 2020, 07:09 AM
I still have access to all the data sets I purchased. Can you say the same without Net access or without paying your monthly access fee? Can you use any data-sets from HLO offline? No. To use the MMO analog again: No Pay, no Play. I'm sorry but if I am putting out $$ I expect to use what I pay for when it suits me not only when I can access the Net.



Since this message-fork has veered way off topic, I am going to stop replying & I ask others to do so as well. Don't need our personal off-topic opinions wasting space in the this sub-forum. Obvious none of us agree with each other, no reason to keep disagreeing with each other about the same thing over & over. Thank you for your opinions one way or the other.
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Ualaa
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Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Vancouver, Canada.
Posts: 699

Old June 25th, 2020, 04:11 PM
If Lonewolf will bring Pathfinder 1e content (along with Community Package and Spheres of Power/Might) to Hero Lab Online, they'll have my subscription forever.

I'm fairly sure a lot of Pathfinder 1e people would subscribe for the online access, real time group buffs or debuffs, having a VTT able to read a live character sheet and update conditions and such.
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