Errors in new Space Marine Data file

[Captain_Oli]

Hallo everyone!

I hope this is the right place for feedback on the newly released 5th edition Space Marine Data file.

I downloaded it only a few minutes ago and unfortunately found a couple of mistakes in no time (wasn't searching for them):

1. Drop Pod: upgrade stormbolter to death wind missle launcher is "free" (but should be +20 Pts.)

2. A Dreadnaught can unfortunately not take a "twin linked" Plasmacannon ;-)

3. Sergeant of a Tactical Squad should be able to take a powerfist and a bolter which is currently not permitted by the programm (automatically gives away the bolter when u take a powerfist).

Best regards
Captain_Oli

[jlong05]

[quote="Captain_Oli"]Hallo everyone!

I hope this is the right place for feedback on the newly released 5th edition Space Marine Data file.

I downloaded it only a few minutes ago and unfortunately found a couple of mistakes in no time (wasn't searching for them):

No problem finding bugs. They are going to happen. As for the correct place. The 'best' place woudl be our team support site not Lonewolfs forums. The support site is: www.ab40k.org

Confirmed. Not sure how this got through.

Also confirmed. Although the information added to the unit line indicated PlasC not TLPLasC. So it looks to be minor.

I am assuming you added the PFist under the area(Replace Bolter with) and not under the other area that said (Replace Bolt Pistol with). This is not a bug, but is by design. You have to select which to replace. (The reason is that a Sergeant can theoretically get 2 PFists if he chose to replace both guns!)

Thanks for the finds. I would recommend posting the confirmed bugs on our forum site bug tracker. That would get them addressed by the maintainer the fastest.

-John.

[Captain_Oli]

Okay and thx for your answer John. I already posted the DropPod issue following the given link (www.ab40k.org ). The Plasmacannon has already been reported there as well. On the 3rd issue I need to check again when I am home. BR Oliver

[Captain_Oli]

Okay, I checked, the third issue was my fault.

But besides that and after some more testing tonight i found so many mistakes - most of them have already been reported on "www.ab40k.org" - that I have to point out that it's currently and unfortunately close to impossible to create a correct rooster with the file. So after waiting a very long time for the file to finally be released, people will have to wait a while longer before it can be used seriously. :-(

Edit: In fact it's buggy as hell! :roll: There are so many so easy to find errors, especially with the pointscosts, I wonder if anyone ever created a rooster before it was released. No offence meant!

[jlong05]

Captain,

I am very sorry that our development didn't meet with a perfect 100% bug free system, but honestly I don't really think that finding bugs is out of the norm. It isn't easy to create an entire system to manage Army creation from scratch without having some bugs get missed during initial Alpha and Beta testing.

I apologize if this comes over as harsh, but for you to expect a perfect file set without offering any help yourself seems a bit wrong. The maintainer group are volunteers. Not employee of Lonewolf. They DO NOT make any money on the application or the datafiles. In fact, the files are hosted on sites we support for free and pay for out of our own pocket.

I am seriously getting a bit perturbed by the users that come on here complaining that they don't have their precious datafiles available when they want them. Please! Download the ABCreator tool and create your own datafiles!

[cervidal]

A-freakin'-men, boss. You should just keep linking that locked threat where you took that store owner to task over this.

Heck, how many of the grumblers here have even paid to renew their lisence annually after it expired from the first year? I'm guessing 0.

Keep up the good work! The template's there, and you and the rest of the guys have always been awesome about user feedback on bugs in the past.

[Captain_Oli]

John,

first of all, no offence meant. I feel you are referring to several issues that seem to be involved here. I am new to the armybuilder program which I purchased a couple of weeks ago for the first time. I play only 40k and was impatiently waiting for the 5th edition Marines.

I am not familiar with the internal details of the product or the producer. Maybe I should, but somethimes I don't read all the fine print ;-) I am just a casual gamer and a new customer of the AB product that looked great and promising (still is). If the work on the datafiles is really done by volunteers that don't get paid i want to thank those individuals very very much for their awesome work! That's crystal clear.

However, if this is the way it works with AB and from what you have written this seems to be a common "misunderstanding" this is a legally very strange and for the producer a very convenient construction. I think people buy the product because they think (and get the impression) you can create roosters for your games with it, something that the product "of the shelve" can't do. The producer is not responsible for the product to work (besides the basic functions) cutting all warranty. And the people actually doing the work are unpaid volunteers, who rightly guarantee for nothing,....

Again, i didn't mean to be ungrateful to gamers doing work for gamers in any way. I think the problem is that one expects the product to be developed and maintained by Lone Wolf Development rather than volunteers and therefore you (the volunteers) seem to sometimes get feedback that feels all wrong. Maybe they (you) should be employed and get payed after all, making everyone happy!?

Anyway, I registered here and on the other site to post the errors I found and I am sure you will cover them and all others. Thank you, BR Oliver

[jlong05]

Sorry if I came across strong. It was late and I was tired. No good excuse, but wanted to be clear.

As for paying us, or being employees, or Lonewolf developing the files themselves. These are not options. The reason is very simple.

Intellectual Property. All games systems have copywrights on their game material. If we developed our files and charged for the service, we could be sued by GW for instance as we are making money on their product. As such we do develop our files, but they ARE NOT a replacement for the printed codex rules. In fact, you are still required to own the Codex rules if you use the datafiles.

As for LW making the files themselves, these same issues would arise for them. This is a key reason for LW specifically NOT providing datafiles. They also DO NOT HOST the files. They do however provide a services that when files are updated and those datafile maintainers provide the file locations, AB will get the updated files for you. You however are not required to use the auto-update feature and therefor not pay the annual subscription.

I understand that the 5ed codex has been wanted for a LONG time, however please understand that as volunteer gamers doing this on our own time, we will only get them done when we have the time.

The purchase of Army Builder did not provide you the purchase of datafile rulesets also. It DID however provide you the tools to create any datafile ruleset you wish. Every person is more than able to maintain their own files. I personally recommend against it, as if everyone did their own files then how do you know their version is correct? But if we are not getting something done fast enough, that is an option provided.

As always, the maintainer team will continue to create a unified standard datafile set that 'should' be used to confirm validity of lists. These updates will be done when we have the time and resources to get them done. I am sorry, but Rome wasn't built in a day, and that also goes for the datafiles. As for bugs, they happen. We are only a dev/test group of about a dozen people. We cannot possibly come up with every single varied list that is possible in a codex, and sometimes programming works one way, but when applied in another it breaks. Even Microsoft has bugs if their software.

How many of you are running Vista right now? That was released with piles of bugs, and more show up every day. That is why you get an update almost weekly! These updates from MS are provided weekly because they have hundreds of developers to help fix issues. We do not, so our updates will take a bit longer.

[Benman]

jlong,

Thank you for the very clear explanation. I also was asking myself why the data-files are done by volunteers. Now i know and the reason is pretty obvious; WL doens not want to break rules on intellectual property.

[Captain_Oli]

Originally Posted by jlong05

As for paying us, or being employees, or Lonewolf developing the files themselves. These are not options. The reason is very simple.

Intellectual Property. All games systems have copywrights on their game material. If we developed our files and charged for the service, we could be sued by GW for instance as we are making money on their product.

Interesting! Thank you for your detailed answer which really sheds light on the issue and explains why it's done the way it is done.

One more thought from my side: I read through a good part of the forum in the meantime and got the impression that this topic comes up periodically. However the usual answer is limited to the fact that datafiles are beeing made by unpayed volunteers, which on it's own is often not satisfiying for the users. If you explain why Lone Wolf can't provide any datafiles (most) people would understand. In addition I still think Lone Wolf should make it more clear on their website that they only provide the basic tool and can't gurantee for datafiles who are made by volunteers. The way the product is presented is not clear on this imo and creates misunderstandings and expectations that can't be fullfilled.

BR, Oliver