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Colen
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Old April 11th, 2013, 09:49 AM
Regarding the kickstarter - it's a great idea, and one we'll be considering at the appropriate time. The problem we're currently facing isn't just a money issue, it's also a time issue.

Even if we raised the money to hire a new employee to work full-time on an Android port, there's always a lot of time that needs to be spent to bring someone new up to speed, make sure everything is being done properly, and so on. This is especially true when you have hundreds of thousands of lines of code to work with, as Hero Lab does.

Even if we hired a great Android developer (and finding a great anything developer is hard enough as it is) that person needs to understand the RPG industry, understand what the product needs to do, understand how it works on current platforms, figure out how to re-use all the necessary code on the new platform, and decide how anything that doesn't directly translate should be represented on that new platform.

That process took months to get through for the iPad port, and that was with me writing much of the code that would be used on the iPad, and already knowing how it worked. If we got someone new in to work on the Android version, simply getting that person up to speed on everything they'd need to know would take a huge chunk of our time for the next few months.

That's time that currently needs to be spent on some badly-needed features for Hero Lab on the desktop, adding missing features to Hero Lab on the iPad, etc. Over the last couple of years we've found that it simply isn't practical to do all that *and* have a new person working on something that needs a lot of supervision.

I understand that you guys really want to use Hero Lab on your android tablets - I totally would too if I had one. But trust me, if there was an easy way to get an android port up and running, we'd be doing it.

We need to spend some time polishing Hero Lab on the iPad, getting it to the point where we're happy with it. At that point we can consider what the next steps are, whether that means adding other game systems, supporting additional platforms like android, or something else. Doing otherwise just means we're not serving our current users as well as we should.

Hope this helps explain why we haven't made any specific android announcements yet. It bugs us that Hero Lab can't be used on android tablets as well, the reality is just that we can't do everything at once, so we need to wait until we can do things properly.
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Jamz
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Old April 11th, 2013, 12:39 PM
Thanks Colen for the reply! And I understand as we run into this at work all the time, there's a limit to the number of bodies you can throw at a task.

Hopefully, a KickStarter, when appropriate, can help drive a faster development time or more features.

Heck, by that time, there may be other technical solutions.

-Jamz

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Laruuk
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Old April 13th, 2013, 10:03 AM
Another Android user here. Would love to have HL on my tablet.
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jnarq
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Old April 16th, 2013, 01:31 PM
+1 for a Kickstarter.

Take my money, please!
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kingpin
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Old April 27th, 2013, 07:04 AM
Just letting you know I would also buy a copy.
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Nikmal
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Old May 1st, 2013, 03:00 AM
Colen,
To be fair back when we were first discussing which OS to port to for Tablets you did say the same thing. It would be difficult to find someone to do the port over. You were able to and succeeded at it with the iPad. While I am sure they are happy users and are happy to have Hero Lab on their iOS as well. I am a sad user as Android does not have it

I love Hero Lab and want it to be as portable as possible. Android has such a large user base it would be sad to see it not utilized for such a great program like this. Time may be an issue but we HAVE time. A person may be an issue as far as a coder for Android and one that understands how RPG's work and such.. why not put a call out for someone that does Android coding and understands RPG's in your user base?? I am sure someone on here of the Paizo boards there is at least one person that knows it and understands HL and RPG's well enough??

Word of mouth would go out and I am sure someone will step up if not more then one person. I for one would love to see this on Android. I would throw money at it. I know my wife would too. She is an avid Mac user but hates the iPad format and uses Android instead of the iPad. Partly because of the cost though. She is an avid RPGer like me.

So please consider that we do truly want Android to be able to have it. It would be sad to say the least that it not get used. Just think right now Android is a larger market overall then the iOS market.
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Adam.Ormond
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Old May 1st, 2013, 04:44 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nikmal View Post
Colen,
To be fair back when we were first discussing which OS to port to for Tablets you did say the same thing. It would be difficult to find someone to do the port over. You were able to and succeeded at it with the iPad. While I am sure they are happy users and are happy to have Hero Lab on their iOS as well. I am a sad user as Android does not have it

I love Hero Lab and want it to be as portable as possible. Android has such a large user base it would be sad to see it not utilized for such a great program like this. Time may be an issue but we HAVE time. A person may be an issue as far as a coder for Android and one that understands how RPG's work and such.. why not put a call out for someone that does Android coding and understands RPG's in your user base?? I am sure someone on here of the Paizo boards there is at least one person that knows it and understands HL and RPG's well enough??

Word of mouth would go out and I am sure someone will step up if not more then one person. I for one would love to see this on Android. I would throw money at it. I know my wife would too. She is an avid Mac user but hates the iPad format and uses Android instead of the iPad. Partly because of the cost though. She is an avid RPGer like me.

So please consider that we do truly want Android to be able to have it. It would be sad to say the least that it not get used. Just think right now Android is a larger market overall then the iOS market.
Kickstarter? Could probably raise the costs of initial development up front... I'd guess $40k would cover dev/manager costs, maybe as little as $20k. Are 2-4k users interested at $10 each? Not sure the user base is big enough.

Last edited by Adam.Ormond; May 1st, 2013 at 04:49 AM.
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mirtos
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Old May 1st, 2013, 11:16 AM
Lets say the kickstarter raises the 40K. Theats a pretty low salary, so i assume you'd be hiring someone part time? What would that person do when they were done. What about the time to train that person. its not as simple as "are you an android developer? do you like RPGs? Go!"
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rob
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Old May 1st, 2013, 11:44 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam.Ormond View Post
Kickstarter? Could probably raise the costs of initial development up front... I'd guess $40k would cover dev/manager costs, maybe as little as $20k. Are 2-4k users interested at $10 each? Not sure the user base is big enough.
Your cost estimate is way off compared to ours. We've already spent many times that amount on the iPad port. Since you already question whether we could raise enough for the low dollar figure you estimated above, it becomes significantly more questionable whether there's a big enough user base to support the actual investment required for an Android port.

Please note that I'm definitely *not* saying we're going to ignore the Android. However, we first need to get the iPad fully finished and then see how the consumer response shapes up for the iPad.

Based on all the data I've seen, the overall Android market is much bigger than iOS, but that includes phones, and the Android *tablet* market pales in contrast to the iPad. That's a critical detail that consumers who don't look closely at the data can easily overlook. Since all we're targeting right now is the tablet, that's market size difference represents a critical factor for the viability of an Android port as well.

Once we have a solid idea of how the full iPad version is actually doing, we'll be able to make an informed decision. But we aren't there yet. When we do get there (best guess is this summer), Kickstarter will most likely factor into the equation as well.

Hope this information helps!
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Jamz
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Old May 1st, 2013, 01:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rob View Post
Based on all the data I've seen, the overall Android market is much bigger than iOS, but that includes phones, and the Android *tablet* market pales in contrast to the iPad.
Well, that might have been the case when you started development

Share as of today is Android: 56%, iPad: 40%. That's JUST tablets, not phones.

Of course there's LOTS of other factors and demographics to take into consideration, not the least of, what will the share BE when you are done developing.

And not sure if "x users more likely to spend money on app" matters as currently it's all free. But I HOPE just having a "viewer" available draws more people into buying the full application, regardless of tablet. I really want an Android version, but personally, I really just want you guys to succeed! I love your products and remember the days of Lone Wolf == Rob and Army Builder.

Hey, have you guys thought about selling a "Special Collectors Hero Lab" edition for around 400-500$? It's Hero Labs + Pathfinder Core + an iPad Mini.

-Jamz

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