WH 40k 5th edition update???

[Michael52]

This is not a request for a particulair data file, but a request as to when AB will update its regulair game files for the newest edition of WH 40k. This is the 5th edtion and covers all the new "basic" and "advanced" rules to the whole game that affects all the different races in the game. Sometimes I feel like I have been had seeing as how the AB people want you to buy their product, but want everyone else to maintain it. So, when is the basic, new game system, 5th edtion going to become available to AB3 owners???

[Taubay]

AB is just a platform for different game systems to sit upon. so it's not a case of AB changing to be able to support 5th edition it a case of the data file authors writing a new version of the data files. remember the cardinal rule here, all data files are produced by volunteer's not by Lone Wolf.

if you look at the Warhammer 40k forum on this site you will see the team who have produced the data files are already working on a version for the 5th edition. it's a well organized team (probably the most professional on the board IMHO) and they have a plan

so maybe you should go and read that forum

[Michael52]

Yes, I did read that forum and yes it looks like those guys are doing a bang up job. However, my comment about Lone Wolf Labs still stands. They created the product, charged us for it, and are still trying to charge more with an "access fee," and yet they want other people to update things for free. In other words they want the users who bought the program to do all the work so that more people will spend their money to buy it and yet it does not cost them much at all. After all, if you can get someone to do something for free that benifits you monetarrilly (sp?), then why not. Oh, and yes I do know that if I don't like it I can go elsewhere. Anyways, that is all I have to say about it. So, no more will be said.

[Ghaz]

They were upfront about the fact that the program comes with NO datafiles and were upfront that the datafile authors would not benefit monetarily from their work. The 'access fee' you're talking about is for running the update servers, etc. AB is no different than Microsoft Excel. If you want to complain, try complaining to them instead.

[Captain_Oli]

Originally Posted by Ghaz

They were upfront about the fact that the program comes with NO datafiles ....

Are they?

I am new to the AB product which I bought only recently, but also came across the here discussed issue. I am not complaining but want to give you my personal opinion:

The way the AB product is beeing presented, including on the Lone Wolf website, is misleading to say at least. It may be true, that you can find all relevant information somewhere in the fine print (if you are a lawyer), but what people expect is a tool that allows them to create roosters for the supported gamesystems which are many according to the website:

Game systems for which Army Builder data files are currently available (as of 15-Apr-2006):

Aeronautica Imperialis – Forge World
Anima: Tactics – Edge Entertainment and Anima Project Studio
AT-43 – Rackham
Babylon 5: A Call to Arms – Mongoose Publishing
Battlefleet Gothic – Games Workshop
Blood Bowl – Games Workshop
Celtos – Urban Mammoth
Chronopia – Excelsior Entertainment
Confrontation – Rackham
Confrontation (English) – Rackham
Confrontation: Age of the Rag'narok – Rackham
Dark Age – Dark Age Games
Epic Armageddon – Games Workshop
Fairy Meat – Kenzer and Company
Flames of War – Battlefront Miniatures
HellDorado – Asmodee
Hordes – Privateer Press
Inquisitor – Games Workshop
L'age du Rag'Narok – Rackham
Le retours des dieux – Asmodee Editions
Leviathan – Grendel
Lord of the Rings – Games Workshop
Lord of the Rings (Polish) – Games Workshop
Mordheim – Games Workshop
Necromunda – Games Workshop
Para Bellum – Gros Bills Associés
Rag'narok – Rackham
Starship Troopers – Mongoose Publishing
Starship Troopers (French) – Mongoose Publishing
Urban War – Urban Mammoth
Victory at Sea – Mongoose Publishing
VOID – Urban Mammoth
Wargods of Aegyptus (French) – Crocodile Games
Warhammer 40,000 (4th Ed) – Games Workshop
Warhammer 40,000 (5th Ed) – Games Workshop
Warhammer 40,000 (French) – Games Workshop
Warhammer Age of Chivalry – Warhammer Historical Wargames
Warhammer Ancient Battles – Warhammer Historical Wargames
Warhammer English Civil War – Warhammer Historical Wargames
Warhammer Fantasy (French) – Games Workshop
Warhammer Fantasy (v6-7) – Games Workshop
Warhammer Historical: The Great War – Games Workshop
Warlord – Reaper Miniatures
Warmachine – Privateer Press
Warmachine/Hordes (French) – Privateer Press
Warmaster – Games Workshop
Warmaster Ancients – Warhammer Historical

There is a line saying "Data files are separate from Army Builder." ....?

Okay again, a lawyer might hear an alarm, but this will usually be understood simply as a requirement to install individual files or something alike.

It's NOT saying clearly that the product is only a platform, on it's own useless for gamers and that all the gamefiles need to be created by the community - unpayed volunteers. Meaning that if there is nobody volunteering you will not be able to create any roosters whatsoever. Meaning that if there are only useless, buggy datafiles you will have nobody to complain to and you have no warranty,...

This has nothing to do with the work that volunteers kindly do for the benefit of the whole community, but it's the general customer misleading concept of AB.

BR, Oli

[Ghaz]

Yes, they are upfront about the program not coming with any datafiles.

http://www.wolflair.com/rightframe.p...sked_questions

http://www.wolflair.com/rightframe.p..._release_dates

It seems clear that if you continually say that the datafiles are done by volunteers then they won't be packaged in the program. Also you fail to take into account that once your license is activated, you can download any of those datafiles that are available. Even in demo mode the datatfiles are free for download. So how is that 'misleading' the customer?

And no, the program is not 'useless' without them any more than Excel is useless without a spreadsheet. They have the same opportunity to make their own datafiles as the volunteers that put out the datafiles do.

http://www.wolflair.com/rightframe.p...=authoring_kit

And finally, from the back of the Army Builder III packaging:

Free datafiles available for dozens of game systems...

That's "available", not "comes with". So where does AB ever promise you datafiles? They don't. Get over it.

[Captain_Oli]

Ghaz,

like you, I (now) know that LW does not provide any datafiles. After talking to "jlong05" I now also understand why it is this way. Something that is usually missing in the answers people get when this issue comes up! Like in your answer btw. Most people who don't read all the fineprint simply expect the product including the datafiles to be provided and maintained by LW rather than volunteers. Otherwise this issue wouldn't come up over and over again, would it?

Originally Posted by Ghaz

Yes, they are upfront about the program not coming with any datafiles.
http://www.wolflair.com/rightframe.p...sked_questions
http://www.wolflair.com/rightframe.p..._release_dates

This is what you call up front? A passage in the faq and a page on release dates? People reading through the basic information on AB on the LW website get a different impression (like I did). That's fact. Yes, the information may be there but it's "hidden", unclear, ambivalent or subject to interpretation.

Originally Posted by Ghaz

And finally, from the back of the Army Builder III packaging:

That's "available", not "comes with". So where does AB ever promise you datafiles? They don't. Get over it.

Good example! This is everything else but clear, if not deliberately ambiguous! It should read like this: "Free downloadable datafiles provided by volunteers around the world are available for dozens of game systems..." Available does not mean comes with but it certainly doesn't mean "maybe available from someone else" either.

They should simply make it clear: They are not poviding for them.

BR, Oliver

[Ghaz]

Yes, it is upfront. They do indeed tell you that datafiles are not included. That is my defintion of being 'upfront'. The buyer is responsible for understanding what he's purchasing, not the seller. As far as I'm concerned, the FAQ for the product IS basic information. Heck, the entire public side of the website IS the basic information for Army Builder. If your not willing to do a little research before you spend your money, that's not the seller's fault. It's all there, just a click away.

[rob]

At 09:44 AM 11/8/2008, you wrote:

like you, I (now) know that LW does not provide any datafiles. After talking to "jlong05" I now also understand why it is this way. Something that is usually missing in the answers people get when this issue comes up! Most people who don't read all the fineprint simply expect the product including the datafiles to be provided and maintained by LW rather than volunteers. Otherwise this issue wouldn't come up over and over again, would it?

I just posted a rather lengthy explanation of *why* Lone Wolf doesn't do any data file development. If you're interested in some of the history and the reasons why things are handled the way they are, I recommend you take a look.