Microsoft Surface RT

[GodPole]

WOW...so much misinformation:

As a current owner of a Surface 2, Windows 8/8.1/10 Beta tester, and current researcher into upgrading to Surface 3, let me clear some things up for you.
I am not going to weigh in on whether it was a mistake or not for Microsoft to release RT or not, since that is all opinion, and, as a previous poster has mentioned, it served a specific purpose when released but MS has chosen to abandon it for various stated reasons. Everything else is just opinion.
However, here are some facts:

1) There is little to NO difference OS wise between the RT and a normal version of Windows 8.1, save one thing: They have crippled the ability to install externally originating software. They have basically inserted a tiny block in the OS that prevents you from "running setup.exe". Now, it is much more complex than that, but that is essentially what was done. Aside from that, there is an entirely functional version of the Windows 8.1 OS on the Surface 2. Don't believe me? Go into the Desktop and look around. Go to Control Panel. Fire up regedit and poke around. It has ALL of the features that come with an out-of-the-box version of Windows 8.1. Hook it up to a Bluetooth mouse, bluetooth keyboard, and remote monitor. It is Windows 8.1, only without the ability to install outside programs (like Herolab).

2) Even though it was initially released to compete with the iPad and Android, one of the major problems consumers had with it was that it WAS more like an actual computer as opposed to an app-driven tablet. You want to know what the iPad has so many non-game apps? CAUSE SAFARI SUCKS! Apple choked on Java from the beginning and the iPad was no better. Apple needed all of those apps to allow their users to access things that the rest of us can get to through the web. So what was the first thing tablet users did with the RT? Search for Apps, which, in honesty, there weren't as many. But what was never stressed was that 95% of the things the iPad needed an app for, the Surface allowed you to access via the web.

3) The Surface was not designed as a game machine. It was designed for business users, such as myself, who needed the ability to have a slim, lightweight, machine that would allow me to access all of my business data (web, cloud, shared network drives, email, office, etc...) without having to fire up a bulky laptop. It allowed me to access the same environment/data/etc as was sitting on my full-blown desktop PC from wherever I was.
If you want to play Angry Birds and Candy Crush, then stick with your iPad...the Surface was not for you.

Now, MS has chosen to go with the Surface 3 and 3 Pro and, soon, the 4. Each one will have its own differences and be targeted at a different kind of user. But make no mistake: These are NOT MS's version of the iPad.

Just my 2 cents...

-GP

[Exmortis]

Originally Posted by ChrisRevocateur

That's just not true. We sold the RT version of the 2 at the store I work at. It didn't use the RT in the name, but the design was the same. A tablet only able to run Windows Store "Modern" apps. They came with Office RT because people complained that the original RTs couldn't run Office, and that's why they got a Windows device in the first place.

I stand corrected, the 2 did see an "RT" type version.

[Exmortis]

Originally Posted by GodPole

1) There is little to NO difference OS wise between the RT and a normal version of Windows 8.1, save one thing: They have crippled the ability to install externally originating software. They have basically inserted a tiny block in the OS that prevents you from "running setup.exe". Now, it is much more complex than that, but that is essentially what was done. Aside from that, there is an entirely functional version of the Windows 8.1 OS on the Surface 2. Don't believe me? Go into the Desktop and look around. Go to Control Panel. Fire up regedit and poke around. It has ALL of the features that come with an out-of-the-box version of Windows 8.1. Hook it up to a Bluetooth mouse, bluetooth keyboard, and remote monitor. It is Windows 8.1, only without the ability to install outside programs (like Herolab).-GP

There was a difference, x86 and ARM are completely different architectures, thus the OS is very much different in the case of the which Surface you own. x86 aps do not install on RT versions because they can't run on an ARM based processor that runs RT based surfaces. Stating anything else is misinformation at it worst. Windows RT is simply a modern version of MS's previously failed mobile OS Windows CE, OK not simply, but essentially a re envisioning of the CE family to ARM.

The dream of Java was compile once run anywhere, You can argue on success for decades.

Windows 10 is MS's first attempt of being a "platform OS", meaning unlike every version before it, you will be able to run the some of the same apps on ARM, Xbox, or a PC. However I will tell you now, do not dream of the day you run Battlefield 5 on Windows 10 on ARM and PC same install, just because the OS supports this does not mean applications will not still be programmed for specific architectures. Also currently almost all ARM based systems are 32bit, and x86 processors have been 64bit for many years even if most of us got 64bit OS with Vista or Win 7. Recently we have finally seen game and game engines being 64bit.

Windows RT is a 32bit core kernel, Windows 8/8.1 almost all of us have on our PCs for the most part is a 64bit core kernel. Just so it is clear, a 64bit OS can sun a 32bit app, 32bit OS cannot run a 64bit app, though that still does not account for the architecture required.

[Farling]

Originally Posted by Exmortis

There was a difference, x86 and ARM are completely different architectures, thus the OS is very much different in the case of the which Surface you own. x86 aps do not install on RT versions because they can't run on an ARM based processor that runs RT based surfaces. Stating anything else is misinformation at it worst.

Definitely!

And, as seen by the OP, many people bought one of these machines because they saw "Microsoft Windows" was the operating system. (Home, RT, Pro - all just different versions of windows; but all compatible?)

Microsoft's intentions mean nothing when they seed confusion amongst the general public.

[GodPole]

Originally Posted by Exmortis

There was a difference, x86 and ARM are completely different architectures, thus the OS is very much different in the case of the which Surface you own.

Nobody claimed that there wasn't a difference in hardware, which is what you are referring to. When you install Windows 8.1 on different hardware configurations, be they Surface Tablets, non-Surface Tablets, laptops, or desktop PCs, different things get installed and "activated" based on what hardware is there. That doesn't mean that you have a "different" version of Windows 8.1.
As I stated, the RT version contained all of the same OS functionality as a non-RT version, save the ability to install external applications.

I'm sorry that people bought the original Surface or the Surface 2 without doing any research into what they were buying. MS has done some pretty shady things in the past, but I'm sorry, they were VERY open and upfront in the beginning about what the differences were.

-GP

[dafrca]

I am in no way a computer person but I will share what I experienced when I went to buy a Surface. I walked up to the Microsoft rep who was there showing off the Surface. The first question he asked me was did I want to run other windows software. When I said yes, he pointed at the RT version and said: "Don't look at these then, they will not fit your needs." He made sure I knew from the start. So I ended up not buying either at the time because I could get a Windows laptop for less than the Pro version at the time.

I loved the idea of the Surface but passed when he explained the limits the one in my budget range had.

[Farling]

Originally Posted by dafrca

I am in no way a computer person but I will share what I experienced when I went to buy a Surface. I walked up to the Microsoft rep who was there showing off the Surface. The first question he asked me was did I want to run other windows software. When I said yes, he pointed at the RT version and said: "Don't look at these then, they will not fit your needs." He made sure I knew from the start. So I ended up not buying either at the time because I could get a Windows laptop for less than the Pro version at the time.

I loved the idea of the Surface but passed when he explained the limits the one in my budget range had.

You're lucky to have been to somewhere with a Microsoft Rep. Many computer stores have staff who don't know this information and/or just want to sell something to get the sale.

Also, any initial "education" by Microsoft was obviously missed by Trexnco, so the "learning" wasn't kept up after initial release.

[Exmortis]

Originally Posted by GodPole

As I stated, the RT version contained all of the same OS functionality as a non-RT version, save the ability to install external applications.-GP

No.

But there is little sense in continuing this conversation.

[Exmortis]

Originally Posted by Farling

You're lucky to have been to somewhere with a Microsoft Rep. Many computer stores have staff who don't know this information and/or just want to sell something to get the sale.

Also, any initial "education" by Microsoft was obviously missed by Trexnco, so the "learning" wasn't kept up after initial release.

Very true and you cannot state this enough, and the biggest culprits of this are the big box stores. I bought my S3P at BestBuy, but I did not need any assistance, I have nearing now 25yrs in the industry and currently am the reason we are moving to S3Ps in our enterprise, did a presentation to my CIO and Executive Technology director, instant sell.

However unless you are in the IT technology field this poses an issue, misinformation, lack of research, and lack of just knowing where to get solid help. Most box store sales staff are not much more knowledgeable then the person they are selling too.

If even one person seeks professional assistance after reading this thread before their next computer purchase, I will consider this time extremely well spent.

[Jamz]

Hopefully this won't be a problem anymore.

If you can return it, return it immediately and get a Surface 3. They start at 499$ and dropped the "RT" tag as it now runs full Windows 8.1 (upgrades to 10) and runs on an regular Intel chip.

2gb of ram, it won't run all your windows apps as well as a SP3 Pro would but with a SSD drive for swap, it shouldn't be terrible. It'll run HL fine and read PDF's just fine. Personally I think the RT was a "beta test" and a "bandaid" until Intel and MS could get a platform out that was decent on battery life yet powerful enough.

I wonder how long we have to wait for Lone Wolf to start supporting us "Windows Tablet" users now and upgrade the interface to be more touch friendly...