I Wish I never bought it

[Ghaz]

--- In armybuilder@yahoogroups.com, "Helmut Grunther"
<conjob_76@y...> wrote:
>
>
> Yes. I clearly stated in my last post that I blamed myself for not
> researching the nature of this software.
>
> That said, I should not, as a consumer, be expected to follow
every
> link on the webpage before buying the software.

That is just a total load of BS. It is the responsibility of EVERY
consumer to make an informed decision before he buys ANYTHING, be it
a new automobile or a soda pop. It is your fault that you purchased
something that didn't meet your expectations because you were to
lazy to investigate. The facts were there to be had just a mouse
click or two away. Rob sure wasn't standing behind you forcing you
to buy something.

So if you really feel that Rob has wronged you, then take it up with
the BBB. I'm sure they'll get a good laugh out of it as they tell
you exactly the same thing I just did. If you're too lazy to check
out what you're buying, then you deserve what you get.

Hmm, perhaps it is time for everyone to move along. Vitriol rarely
solved anything and this thread is plenty long enough as it is.

On a more useful note the latest AB3 patch for Daemonhunters is up. Adds
in space marines, dread weapon options, warrior options, assorted rules
for allies, allied and inducted units, sorts out armour values not
displaying and a host of other minor issues.

Please report all errors, typos, wrong costs etc. to the AB40K3 group.
Some dread weapons are missing pending clarification of their legality
these days. Please note that since it uses the AB3 sm and ig files
errors there aren't necessarily my doing Bug reports on those go to
the same place. Of course any spurious units showing up in those files
is nothing to do with me either

I will endeavour to deal any reports ASAP, assuming real life and work
permit.

On a totally unrelated note I'd just like to say Rob that theAB3 user
interface keeps getting better. Having mislaid my DH codex I was
swapping between V2.2 and V3.0 checking rules etc. V2.2 really looks
clunky in comparison now and yet before V3 it was the best out there.

Congratulations on a job well done.

Cheers
--
Versif, Nightgoblin backstabber and all round coward, but nice with it.
Kirkby-in-Ashfield, Nottinghamshire - whaddya mean, Robin Hood wasn't a goblin?

[rob]

The issue with the data files is basically due to GW's stance on the
subject. In the early days of AB, GW did a lot of sword-rattling and
chest-beating in an effort to shut us down. By making sure AB is truly a
generic engine, and by not touching the data files ourselves for GW's
games, we stay adequately shielded from any legal action GW could take. The
moment that we touch the data files, we begin directly mucking with GW's
IP, and that exposes us to action from GW. Over the past half-dozen years,
we've made various overtures to GW in an attempt to resolve this issue so
that we CAN work on the data files without fear of litigation. Those
attempts have met with negligible interest within GW, as far as I'm aware.

The fact is that there are quite a few GW employees who swear by AB and
think that the whole situation is silly. But the corporate folks at the top
view AB as a threat in some way. Note that this position was held by GW
*LONG* before they ever released their IAL product, so it's not just a
matter of a competing product. And the IAL doesn't support any of GW's
other games, so AB provides a "complete" solution to GW's suite of games.
So AB doesn't compete with a GW product for any other games.

I would love to work out some sort of official arrangement with GW. But the
ball, as has always been the case, is in their court.

-Rob

At 10:15 PM 1/29/2005 +0000, you wrote:
>That said, have you guys considered just expanding your Staff to
>include one or two salaried employees to build the datafiles? Your
>product seems quite popular, so I can only assume that your company
>could afford it and it'd do wonders for the software.


---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Rob Bowes (rob@wolflair.com) (650) 588-8252
Lone Wolf Development www.wolflair.com

I am about sick of this crap I am hearing. We sometimes buy product that is not the way we would like it. Maybe, some of you should get off your high horses and think before you shallow your feet. AB is not perfect...close But, sometimes people who are just starting a hobby buy before knowing the pro and cons of the hobby eg. GW sub-standard software. Some people do not know that the data files are not from AB but from hard working hobbists. Hope some of you never buy from me. As I would tell you, that the hundreds of thousands you just spent on a house is your fault if something was wrong. Maybe you should have asked me the right questions...why should I be responible for your well being. WHY? Cause that is what I get paid for. And I hope you and your friends keep coming back again and again.

My 2 cents worth...


Gord Oakes

Sutton Group - Canwest
www.gothomes.ca
----- Original Message -----
From: ghazhkull_thraka
To: armybuilder@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2005 12:09 PM
Subject: Re: [AB] I Wish I never bought it



--- In armybuilder@yahoogroups.com, "Helmut Grunther"
<conjob_76@y...> wrote:
>
>
> Yes. I clearly stated in my last post that I blamed myself for not
> researching the nature of this software.
>
> That said, I should not, as a consumer, be expected to follow
every
> link on the webpage before buying the software.

That is just a total load of BS. It is the responsibility of EVERY
consumer to make an informed decision before he buys ANYTHING, be it
a new automobile or a soda pop. It is your fault that you purchased
something that didn't meet your expectations because you were to
lazy to investigate. The facts were there to be had just a mouse
click or two away. Rob sure wasn't standing behind you forcing you
to buy something.

So if you really feel that Rob has wronged you, then take it up with
the BBB. I'm sure they'll get a good laugh out of it as they tell
you exactly the same thing I just did. If you're too lazy to check
out what you're buying, then you deserve what you get.





To unsubscribe from this group, email

armybuilder-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[deathlynx]

> Note that this
> position was held by GW
> *LONG* before they ever released their IAL product,
> so it's not just a
> matter of a competing product. And the IAL doesn't
> support any of GW's
> other games, so AB provides a "complete" solution to
> GW's suite of games.
> So AB doesn't compete with a GW product for any
> other games.
>
> I would love to work out some sort of official
> arrangement with GW. But the
> ball, as has always been the case, is in their
> court.

I think GWs issue has been that the data files would
hone in on sales for their codexes and
armybooks...Well, that and corporate America is always
afraid of releasing rights to ANYTHING, especially if
they're not making money off of it...

If it's mostly the former you two might inquire about
a trial effort with their "Specialist Games" lines
since they now have moved all of the refference
material over to the web page...There wouldn't be any
concern over loss of sales and it would give you a
chance to prove you're not trying to step on their toes...

=====




__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Read only the mail you want - Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard.
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail

You're far from the only one who's fed up of it.

Rob and Helmut who has the issue with AB are probably the only two people
having a DECENT discussion on this subject
without name calling, insulting or belittling.
Helmut has already said it's his fault for not reading the T&C and doing his
homework.
Rob has done his part and offered the refund if he wants it.
Shouting at Helmut really isn't going to encourage him to continue using AB3
and this whole discussion thread does
nothing but down play the usual good value of this group.
(If I hadn't already used it, I certainly wouldn't want to start using AB
after reading all this.)
So think about how your anger is affecting WolfLair's reputation. You may
think your right behind Rob, giving him
all your support, but from my perspective, well... lets just say it looks
FAR from professional.
(yes... i KNOW this isn't their customer support, but I got here from their
site.. so I'd expect a lot of potential customers "doing their homework"
would do the same.

So how about everyone get off the bandwagon and go back to regular
discussions and problem solving?

(plus, my mailbox needs emptying daily... and that's annoying enough on its
own).



_____

From: Darkimages [mailto:darkimages@shaw.ca]
Sent: 31 January 2005 09:31
To: ab@support.wolflair.com
Subject: Re: [AB] I Wish I never bought it



I am about sick of this crap I am hearing. We sometimes buy product that is
not the way we would like it. Maybe, some of you should get off your high
horses and think before you shallow your feet. AB is not perfect...close
But, sometimes people who are just starting a hobby buy before knowing the
pro and cons of the hobby eg. GW sub-standard software. Some people do not
know that the data files are not from AB but from hard working hobbists.
Hope some of you never buy from me. As I would tell you, that the hundreds
of thousands you just spent on a house is your fault if something was wrong.
Maybe you should have asked me the right questions...why should I be
responible for your well being. WHY? Cause that is what I get paid for. And
I hope you and your friends keep coming back again and again.

My 2 cents worth...


Gord Oakes

Sutton Group - Canwest
www.gothomes.ca
----- Original Message -----
From: ghazhkull_thraka
To: armybuilder@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2005 12:09 PM
Subject: Re: [AB] I Wish I never bought it



--- In armybuilder@yahoogroups.com, "Helmut Grunther"
<conjob_76@y...> wrote:
>
>
> Yes. I clearly stated in my last post that I blamed myself for not
> researching the nature of this software.
>
> That said, I should not, as a consumer, be expected to follow
every
> link on the webpage before buying the software.

That is just a total load of BS. It is the responsibility of EVERY
consumer to make an informed decision before he buys ANYTHING, be it
a new automobile or a soda pop. It is your fault that you purchased
something that didn't meet your expectations because you were to
lazy to investigate. The facts were there to be had just a mouse
click or two away. Rob sure wasn't standing behind you forcing you
to buy something.

So if you really feel that Rob has wronged you, then take it up with
the BBB. I'm sure they'll get a good laugh out of it as they tell
you exactly the same thing I just did. If you're too lazy to check
out what you're buying, then you deserve what you get.





To unsubscribe from this group, email

armybuilder-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[rob]

In the past, GWs official complaint was always that they lost sales of army
books due to AB. This always flew in the face of constant statements by
RETAILERS (i.e. the folks who sell GW as a living) that AB encouraged
gamers to experiment with new armies and alomst always resulted in MORE
sales of GW product for them. So I always guessed it was really just a
rationalized smokescreen to cover the real reason, which I assumed was just
simple indignation that anyone would develop a product that might make a
tiny bit of money indirectly from GW's products. But then GW refused to
even consider a licensing relationship, so the bottom line is that I have
*NO* real idea what GW's true objections were/are regarding AB.

I have no familiarity with the "Specialist Games" lines you're referring
to. When GW instituted their internet retailer crackdown years ago in an
attempt to capture most internet sales for themselves, I finally got fed up
with GW's corporate philosophies. So I haven't bought a single GW product
for myself in years. You imply that GW now publishes all its army books
online, which I find amazing. Please fill me in on your idea so that I can
investigate it further (offline might be best to avoid cluttering up this
list further).

-Rob

At 05:59 AM 1/31/2005 -0800, you wrote:
>I think GWs issue has been that the data files would
>hone in on sales for their codexes and
>armybooks...Well, that and corporate America is always
>afraid of releasing rights to ANYTHING, especially if
>they're not making money off of it...
>
>If it's mostly the former you two might inquire about
>a trial effort with their "Specialist Games" lines
>since they now have moved all of the refference
>material over to the web page...There wouldn't be any
>concern over loss of sales and it would give you a
>chance to prove you're not trying to step on their toes...


---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Rob Bowes (rob@wolflair.com) (650) 588-8252
Lone Wolf Development www.wolflair.com

After years of shelling out hard earned money to GW and the pice hiking that they have continued to imploy upon the gaming world. I have moved to more historic games such as FOW and found that FOW atleast has a game engine that is not so scewed to new releases. Thus finding any army even base armies competitive. Moving to different gaming systems is the real reson for Ab. But if you feel the need to punished by GW please continued to devest your money in a system that is no longer interested in gaming or story(like the old days of GW) and only interested in becoming th Microsoft of the gaming industry. As for me, that holds absolutlly no appeal, GW has turned its back up on the hardcore gamers and is just aiming at the kids that really don't have the money to afford such a game.

THNX
Yeshua A. Hayes

Rob Bowes <rob@wolflair.com> wrote:
In the past, GWs official complaint was always that they lost sales of army
books due to AB. This always flew in the face of constant statements by
RETAILERS (i.e. the folks who sell GW as a living) that AB encouraged
gamers to experiment with new armies and alomst always resulted in MORE
sales of GW product for them. So I always guessed it was really just a
rationalized smokescreen to cover the real reason, which I assumed was just
simple indignation that anyone would develop a product that might make a
tiny bit of money indirectly from GW's products. But then GW refused to
even consider a licensing relationship, so the bottom line is that I have
*NO* real idea what GW's true objections were/are regarding AB.

I have no familiarity with the "Specialist Games" lines you're referring
to. When GW instituted their internet retailer crackdown years ago in an
attempt to capture most internet sales for themselves, I finally got fed up
with GW's corporate philosophies. So I haven't bought a single GW product
for myself in years. You imply that GW now publishes all its army books
online, which I find amazing. Please fill me in on your idea so that I can
investigate it further (offline might be best to avoid cluttering up this
list further).

-Rob

At 05:59 AM 1/31/2005 -0800, you wrote:
>I think GWs issue has been that the data files would
>hone in on sales for their codexes and
>armybooks...Well, that and corporate America is always
>afraid of releasing rights to ANYTHING, especially if
>they're not making money off of it...
>
>If it's mostly the former you two might inquire about
>a trial effort with their "Specialist Games" lines
>since they now have moved all of the refference
>material over to the web page...There wouldn't be any
>concern over loss of sales and it would give you a
>chance to prove you're not trying to step on their toes...


---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Rob Bowes (rob@wolflair.com) (650) 588-8252
Lone Wolf Development www.wolflair.com



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

The Specialist Games are Necromunda, Mordhiem, BFG, Blood Bowl and
Inquistor. Which they now have living rulebooks on the website so
people can just download them and play the games. You can still by the
rulebooks in book form as well. But it allows people to decide if they
like the game before they actually fork out money for it. I was
suprised when GW headed this route but it does make sense.


On Mon, 31 Jan 2005 16:30:08 -0800, Rob Bowes <rob@wolflair.com> wrote:
>
> In the past, GWs official complaint was always that they lost sales of army
> books due to AB. This always flew in the face of constant statements by
> RETAILERS (i.e. the folks who sell GW as a living) that AB encouraged
> gamers to experiment with new armies and alomst always resulted in MORE
> sales of GW product for them. So I always guessed it was really just a
> rationalized smokescreen to cover the real reason, which I assumed was just
> simple indignation that anyone would develop a product that might make a
> tiny bit of money indirectly from GW's products. But then GW refused to
> even consider a licensing relationship, so the bottom line is that I have
> *NO* real idea what GW's true objections were/are regarding AB.
>
> I have no familiarity with the "Specialist Games" lines you're referring
> to. When GW instituted their internet retailer crackdown years ago in an
> attempt to capture most internet sales for themselves, I finally got fed up
> with GW's corporate philosophies. So I haven't bought a single GW product
> for myself in years. You imply that GW now publishes all its army books
> online, which I find amazing. Please fill me in on your idea so that I can
> investigate it further (offline might be best to avoid cluttering up this
> list further).
>
> -Rob
>
> At 05:59 AM 1/31/2005 -0800, you wrote:
> >I think GWs issue has been that the data files would
> >hone in on sales for their codexes and
> >armybooks...Well, that and corporate America is always
> >afraid of releasing rights to ANYTHING, especially if
> >they're not making money off of it...
> >
> >If it's mostly the former you two might inquire about
> >a trial effort with their "Specialist Games" lines
> >since they now have moved all of the refference
> >material over to the web page...There wouldn't be any
> >concern over loss of sales and it would give you a
> >chance to prove you're not trying to step on their toes...
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Rob Bowes (rob@wolflair.com) (650) 588-8252
> Lone Wolf Development www.wolflair.com
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, email
>
> armybuilder-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>

The Specialist Games are Necromunda, Mordhiem, BFG, Blood Bowl and
Inquistor. Which they now have living rulebooks on the website so
people can just download them and play the games. You can still by the
rulebooks in book form as well. But it allows people to decide if they
like the game before they actually fork out money for it. I was
suprised when GW headed this route but it does make sense.


On Mon, 31 Jan 2005 16:30:08 -0800, Rob Bowes <rob@wolflair.com> wrote:
>
> In the past, GWs official complaint was always that they lost sales of army
> books due to AB. This always flew in the face of constant statements by
> RETAILERS (i.e. the folks who sell GW as a living) that AB encouraged
> gamers to experiment with new armies and alomst always resulted in MORE
> sales of GW product for them. So I always guessed it was really just a
> rationalized smokescreen to cover the real reason, which I assumed was just
> simple indignation that anyone would develop a product that might make a
> tiny bit of money indirectly from GW's products. But then GW refused to
> even consider a licensing relationship, so the bottom line is that I have
> *NO* real idea what GW's true objections were/are regarding AB.
>
> I have no familiarity with the "Specialist Games" lines you're referring
> to. When GW instituted their internet retailer crackdown years ago in an
> attempt to capture most internet sales for themselves, I finally got fed up
> with GW's corporate philosophies. So I haven't bought a single GW product
> for myself in years. You imply that GW now publishes all its army books
> online, which I find amazing. Please fill me in on your idea so that I can
> investigate it further (offline might be best to avoid cluttering up this
> list further).
>
> -Rob
>
> At 05:59 AM 1/31/2005 -0800, you wrote:
> >I think GWs issue has been that the data files would
> >hone in on sales for their codexes and
> >armybooks...Well, that and corporate America is always
> >afraid of releasing rights to ANYTHING, especially if
> >they're not making money off of it...
> >
> >If it's mostly the former you two might inquire about
> >a trial effort with their "Specialist Games" lines
> >since they now have moved all of the refference
> >material over to the web page...There wouldn't be any
> >concern over loss of sales and it would give you a
> >chance to prove you're not trying to step on their toes...
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Rob Bowes (rob@wolflair.com) (650) 588-8252
> Lone Wolf Development www.wolflair.com
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, email
>
> armybuilder-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>