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Jamz
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Old March 26th, 2020, 10:25 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rob View Post
Yes, the priority got boosted, but we still have some other items that are well underway and have to completed before we switch gears like that. And there's also the need for the VTT side to import what we export once we get that all in place. So it's not gonna be anything immediate. But it will likely be done a good bit sooner than previously planned...
MapTool is ready and waiting!

In fact, in our macro scripting language we already support full REST so if you expose some basic API endpoints for us to consume, the *users* can start consuming your content right away! Note, I said *users* which means, technically, there is no coding required from the core MapTool team, but rather framework writers (depending on the system, ie PF2, SF, or SR) AND hopefully the format will be a nice JSON which is easy to consume. We support JsonPath so getting fields from complicated objects is a bit easier. If we can start with some simple character info like combat stats would be great.

I'd love to see some end points that we could also call to turn on conditions and adjust HP from the VTT side.

Lets do this!

(maybe we could have a separate forum channel or discord or something to discuss going forward?)

-Jamz

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Last edited by Jamz; March 26th, 2020 at 10:34 AM.
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magpi
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Old March 26th, 2020, 10:46 AM
@Jamz, as a guy who recently started using MapTool (and loves it! I used Roll20 forever but will never go back), this is exciting!
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Jamz
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Old March 28th, 2020, 09:07 PM
@Magpi great to hear! We've been pretty active lately with some new developer contributions so lots of new stuff coming down the line!

-Jamz

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yanko128
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Old March 30th, 2020, 08:55 PM
Reading this thread sold me on HLO. Once my group plays a game it supports, I will pay for the license.
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Nightstar
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Old April 13th, 2020, 04:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rob View Post
In other words, you want us to rewrite 70% of the application using a different platform model. Unfortunately, that isn't a viable option for the exact same reasons I already outlined earlier in this thread.
Yes, I think a lot of people do want this. I've been browsing other forums, such as Paizo, and the number of threads complaining about the lack of customization and the need to be online 24/7 to use HLO is rather frequent when looking for Hero Lab posts. As is the lamentations of HLC not supporting PF2 and SF. So many people on other forums and people I've talked to in person, have echoed these same complaints, just as they have in this thread.

And many of these people claim they can't support HL any longer... Many, like myself, have spent hundreds on HLC and used it extensively for years. I guess maybe it sort of feels like a slap in the face for the old users that loved and supported HLC, but can no longer use it if they want to play PF2 or SF. Hell, I would spend hours everyday with the editor, adding custom content like the Genius Guide to Death Knights. Can I do that in HLO? NO.

Maybe I'm just getting old, or don't play on groups where people use their laptops/phones for everything at the game table... Perhaps I'm a tabletop dinosaur, like many others I've seen on the forums, and we should be ignored because we're not the future. But I would wager that if you brought PF2 and SF to HLC, you would see a jump in sells. Especially if HLO and HLC could be linked.

But that's just my two copper from a gaming dinosaur...
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Nightstar
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Old April 13th, 2020, 04:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rob View Post
There is nothing I'm aware of that HLC can possibly do in terms of features that HLO cannot, with the exception of some items that are already planned to be added to HLO. However, the reverse absolutely true. There are many things that the connectedness of HLO allows us to do that simply aren't realistic within HLC. The Campaign Theater features we just introduced are merely the tip of the iceberg for that.

As for bringing games from HLO to HLC, it's theoretically possible. However, it would require a major reallocation of resources away from HLO to accomplish that. If we could afford a larger team, then we'd potentially be able to do something like that, but I don't see it as realistic in the near term, at least.
HLO can't add custom classes, among other things. And HLO to HLC should be, along with VTT integration, Top priorities.

But really, is anything going to change on what is said here? Doubtful... The criticisms are dismissed too quickly to show any plan to reevaluate the course of HLO.
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Duggan
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Old April 13th, 2020, 05:06 PM
I don't think we're being ignored (I'm a proud HLC user myself) so much as that Rob is being clear that Lone Wolf has to transition in another direction, and that they can't afford to pay people to adapt the system one direction or the other. It is unfortunate, but not malicious.
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Toblakai
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Old April 13th, 2020, 05:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nightstar View Post
Yes, I think a lot of people do want this. I've been browsing other forums, such as Paizo, and the number of threads complaining about the lack of customization and the need to be online 24/7 to use HLO is rather frequent when looking for Hero Lab posts. As is the lamentations of HLC not supporting PF2 and SF. So many people on other forums and people I've talked to in person, have echoed these same complaints, just as they have in this thread.
I'm no sure this is totally accurate, when seeing these posts on Paizo it seems to be the same 6 people or so. Character generators are not a high demand app, so LWD has to pick where the limited resources go, and an online model is really the best option for device coverage and future proofing.
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Nightstar
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Old April 13th, 2020, 05:46 PM
Eh, it's more than the same six guys, over the past 3 years... But maybe I'm just disgruntled.
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thaX
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Old April 15th, 2020, 08:28 AM
To be fair, the program of HLC does have some limitations that had work arounds, such as splitting some feats to what choices the character would choose.

It isn't to the point where Etools was when it was yanked out of that company's hands, but if PF1 would have continued with added classes and weird mechanics (like the kineticist), HLC would eventually have to evolve to handle it.

The new App (HLO) is different, with a slightly different purpose and more interactive than the program. The Campaign Theater is a lofty and useful tool, but limited to those that are the game masters for the most part. To that end, though, I believe the product overall will surpass the program's original limitations and have a better and faster interaction once PF1 and other systems migrate to it's domain. The active nature of the character in play is better evolved than the In Play tab in the program, and the App is being improved more and more.

Overall, the App is still not on par with the original Program, but it is improved to a point that I myself am thinking about a purchase. I doubt we get user content in the same manor as the program, as the App is on a server somewhere and not really available for the user to define. My thought is that some sort of User Adjustments could be implemented in some way, but the nature of the App limits how it could be done.

The best example is The World is Square rules adjustment change regarding the Feat Tax elimination. Would it need to be a separate user created (Free) license, or adjusted somehow for each character that would use it? When PF1 is brought over, will there be a way for this to be a choice for the character from user input? This is the quandary and the App needs to keep this content separate from the actual set content on the server as these adjustments are made for the characters. I doubt that this was an overwhelming concern when the choice was made to go Online, with the App being more than the simply character creation aid and tracker.
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