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Dami
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Old January 31st, 2020, 06:05 PM
Apologies to you Joe if you felt my concern was directed at you specifically. I understand that LW posts on the forums come from different people in different positions who may not be the best person to answer specific questions or offer guidelines on future LW work.
Like Maidhc, if PF1 doesn't come to HLO then LW quite likely has nothing to offer me anymore. It seems like the standard response from LW regarding pre-HLO systems is "we may continue fixing bugs, but nothing new is going to happen" and HLO is only new systems going forward, with official package support being months behind the actual book releases, if at all.
I'll keep hoping for better news, (particularly from Rob as to the future of all LW products) but I won't be surprised to hear little or nothing.

Current RPG's: Pathfinder (GM), Pathfinder (Player), Gamma World (GM, Pathfinder homebrew).
HeroLab: 3.5 & Pathfinder. HL User Files for PF: Greyhawk Setting, Gamma World (WIP).

DM and player of D&D since 1980.
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Maidhc O Casain
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Old February 1st, 2020, 05:08 AM
I offer the following as further evidence that Pathfinder 1st will never come to HLO, in spite of Rob's promises.

The Savage Worlds game system for HLC is written and maintained almost in it's entirety by volunteers. The game got a significant update recently. CapedCrusader (the primary data file contributor, and again, a volunteer) submitted his completed update for the HLC files to LoneWolf on October 13th, 2019. Radio silence from them until December 13th, two months later, when they said they would "try to get us a test set by the holidays." Followed by another month and a half of radio silence, then today… they told CapedCrusader "they've been busy working on Campaign Theater and have not gotten to the Savage Worlds update review yet, and do not know when they will."

If they can't even spare the time to review an update where all the heavy lifting has been done for them, I'm guessing we'll be adding Rob's promise that Pathfinder 1st will be ported over to HLO, which will require significantly more work on their part, to the pile of other promises that will never be fulfilled.

Disappointing.

Last edited by Maidhc O Casain; February 1st, 2020 at 05:22 AM.
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Toblakai
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Old February 1st, 2020, 10:34 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maidhc O Casain View Post
If they can't even spare the time to review an update where all the heavy lifting has been done for them, I'm guessing we'll be adding Rob's promise that Pathfinder 1st will be ported over to HLO, which will require significantly more work on their part, to the pile of other promises that will never be fulfilled.

Disappointing.
From posts by Rob, I am pretty sure LWD means well and wants to do the work, but right now focusing on porting a system that will never get new content is not a good ROI. I bet that PF2 really threw a wrench in their plans also. Small companies need to focus on getting stuff done that allows them to continue as a company.
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Maidhc O Casain
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Old February 1st, 2020, 01:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toblakai View Post
From posts by Rob, I am pretty sure LWD means well and wants to do the work, but right now focusing on porting a system that will never get new content is not a good ROI. I bet that PF2 really threw a wrench in their plans also. Small companies need to focus on getting stuff done that allows them to continue as a company.
Nor will it ever be a good ROI. But neither is abandoning promises of service to part of your existing, loyal customer base. The fact that it's a poor return on investment doesn't relieve them of responsibility for doing what they said they would do, nor does it eliminate my right to be disappointed - even angry - about it when they don't.

To be clear, I also believe that Rob and Co mean well. I in no way ascribe malicious intent or deliberate wrong doing for any of this. And it is their business. Neither fact which lessens my disappointment.

Last edited by Maidhc O Casain; February 1st, 2020 at 02:21 PM.
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Farling
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Old February 1st, 2020, 02:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maidhc O Casain View Post
The fact that it's a poor return on investment doesn't relieve them of responsibility for doing what they said they would do
They are a business, so they can change their mind about what they will do...

However it doesn't mean that their existing customer base will be happy with their business choices.

Farling

Author of the Realm Works Import (http://forums.wolflair.com/showthread.php?t=58156) and Output tools (http://forums.wolflair.com/showthread.php?t=59981)
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Maidhc O Casain
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Old February 2nd, 2020, 07:27 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Farling View Post
They are a business, so they can change their mind about what they will do...

However it doesn't mean that their existing customer base will be happy with their business choices.
Well, sure they can! Anyone can, at any time. I can promise anything I want to promise, to anyone I want to promise it to. Then "change my mind" and not fulfill that promise. It damages my integrity and credibility to do so, but I can do it. I'm not talking about what folks CAN do...

Last edited by Maidhc O Casain; February 2nd, 2020 at 07:33 AM.
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Farling
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Old February 2nd, 2020, 07:50 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maidhc O Casain View Post
Well, sure they can! Anyone can, at any time. I can promise anything I want to promise, to anyone I want to promise it to. Then "change my mind" and not fulfill that promise. It damages my integrity and credibility to do so, but I can do it. I'm not talking about what folks CAN do...
You were talking about "responsibility for doing what they said they would do", which is fairly close.

Farling

Author of the Realm Works Import (http://forums.wolflair.com/showthread.php?t=58156) and Output tools (http://forums.wolflair.com/showthread.php?t=59981)
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thaX
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Old February 2nd, 2020, 07:59 AM
I am hoping that HLO gets the inner workings of the current products working and up to HLC quality more so than getting PF1 changed over to it. Offline use is a priority, but it seems to be an afterthought right now.
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Maidhc O Casain
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Old February 2nd, 2020, 08:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Farling View Post
You were talking about "responsibility for doing what they said they would do", which is fairly close.
That's it exactly. Thanks, Farling.
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Farling
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Old February 2nd, 2020, 02:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by thaX View Post
I am hoping that HLO gets the inner workings of the current products working and up to HLC quality more so than getting PF1 changed over to it. Offline use is a priority, but it seems to be an afterthought right now.
With the amount of material to convert from HLC to HLO, it would be sensible for them to implement a converter that reads the XML files and generates the data and scripts in whatever language they are now using.

Doing the conversion manually would get individual small parts available more quickly, but in the long run it would likely take longer to convert everything manually.

(I've seen both approaches taken in my 32 years of programming - and cringed when people chose the manual approach.)

Farling

Author of the Realm Works Import (http://forums.wolflair.com/showthread.php?t=58156) and Output tools (http://forums.wolflair.com/showthread.php?t=59981)
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