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Parody
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Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Rochester, MN
Posts: 1,383

Old August 30th, 2017, 01:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BJ View Post
I haven't found this specific sentence on Facebook, and if I do I will fix it, but I did see where one of our staff said:

"Hero Lab for the desktop isn't being abandoned for legacy systems, but moving forward the plan is to support new game systems, starting with Starfinder, through the Online platform exclusively."
It was paraphrased from this statement plus the previous postings about Starfinder not coming to desktop Hero Lab (which was restated in those Facebook posts).

Regardless, it doesn't change much at this moment if you're not planning on playing Starfinder. I highly doubt you're going to stop releasing new material for the existing systems that have new published material coming. It's what happens down the line that will matter, starting with how Hero Lab Online works in the field.

Parody is offline   #91
Fallenjack
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Old August 30th, 2017, 07:59 PM
Quote:
Q: Will Hero Lab Classic support Starfinder.
A: Starfinder is a unique system with various aspects that are much better suited to Hero Lab Online. Heck, that’s why we’re focusing on Starfinder first! Consequently, we will not be offering Starfinder in Hero Lab Classic, at least initially, as it wouldn’t be as powerful or enjoyable to use.
This makes me sad, I have been pouring money into HL and had high hopes for Starfinder being something that would be supported. As someone that runs organized play, I use HL a lot and I can tell you from experience that most conventions that I have run at and FLGS have either crap for internet connections or spotty LTE coverage at best.

From my point of view. It's a lose, lose, proposition. Say I pay the $20.00 to migrate my content (which mind you I already paid for) I get to view it only if I choose to stop paying you. So I paid for the core books and now I get to view it, how is that different than just busting out the core book? I use HL to make things and play dynamically at the table, to cut down on math, to get people started in the game quickly by making quick characters. So in your scenario, I can view the licensed content but I can't do anything with it until I pay you more. Just saying there is no value in your deal from my point of view.

I get where you are coming from but I don't agree with it. Always online nonsense is always anti-consumer no matter how you slice it. That said, it's a mote point to shout from the hills this early, so I will wait and see what kind of offline features you give us.

P.S - Also Starfinder is not unique, it is slightly different; yes ship combat has been added and that is new but not much else. We have two AC's now and some other rules have been dropped, new words to describe old behaviors at best.
Fallenjack is offline   #92
Tumorseal
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Old August 31st, 2017, 07:49 PM
The migration fee is the worst part of this. Flat out extortion to access the content some of us have dumped hundreds of dollars into.

I was honestly planning on putting hundreds more into Starfinder. But now I am weighing the sunk cost fallacy in my head and looking for an alternative.
Tumorseal is offline   #93
Mystic Lemur
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Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Alabama
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Old August 31st, 2017, 10:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tumorseal View Post
The migration fee is the worst part of this. Flat out extortion to access the content some of us have dumped hundreds of dollars into.

I was honestly planning on putting hundreds more into Starfinder. But now I am weighing the sunk cost fallacy in my head and looking for an alternative.
You're not losing access to any content you already have access to if you stick with Classic. I'm not happy about any of this either, but yours is an obviously incorrect statement.
Mystic Lemur is offline   #94
Amatyr
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Old September 1st, 2017, 02:09 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tumorseal View Post
The migration fee is the worst part of this. Flat out extortion to access the content some of us have dumped hundreds of dollars into.
As the migration* includes 6 months of access (so, what $12 value if it's $2/month?) it's a really nominal fee to add the web version. I think that's fine if there's an admin overhead.

* Bad word choice on their part. To me, migration means moving from one thing to the other, but since you keep full access to Classic HL, it's not that. Should change the term to something else to make this clear, I think.
Amatyr is offline   #95
Winterfyre
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Join Date: Aug 2017
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Old September 1st, 2017, 07:27 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mystic Lemur View Post
You're not losing access to any content you already have access to if you stick with Classic. I'm not happy about any of this either, but yours is an obviously incorrect statement.
He mentioned Starfinder, not Pathfinder.

There will be no classic version for Starfinder so yes, he would be losing all of his Starfinder content if he doesn't pay the monthly extortion fee.

Secondly, we have nothing but a vague "HLC will still work and all of your EXISTING datapacks will work" comment, which leaves them enough wiggle room to stop putting out data packs for HLC and still be telling the truth, yes, HLC will still work, but not if you want to use any material after a certain point.

Will they do this? Well, every other buy once use forever system I have ever been involved with that went to a monthly fee eventually converted everything to a monthly fee system so in my experience yes, we should plan on eventually everything moving to a HLO only model.
Winterfyre is offline   #96
LazarX
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Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Jersey City
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Old September 1st, 2017, 08:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by karpomatic View Post
Will the desktop HL be phased out for the web based program or will Starfinder come to the desktop as well? I really don't want to be forced to move to an online only platform but I don't want to be left behind either.
Despite what LW might say, It'd be very hard for them to resist the eventual temptation to close down the desktop app for the sheer problems of maintaining two parralel products. Especially when one is so much easier to implement and control, and anti-pirate.
LazarX is offline   #97
LazarX
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Old September 1st, 2017, 08:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fallenjack View Post

P.S - Also Starfinder is not unique, it is slightly different; yes ship combat has been added and that is new but not much else. We have two AC's now and some other rules have been dropped, new words to describe old behaviors at best.
It's considerably different. It's way more different from Pathfinder than the latter was from 3.5.
LazarX is offline   #98
Paragon
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Old September 1st, 2017, 11:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by LazarX View Post
It's considerably different. It's way more different from Pathfinder than the latter was from 3.5.
Doesn't mean its different in a way that specifically demands the online approach.

I mean, look, I get the advantage from LWD's POV: they can put out something that's platform agnostic and provides other benefits, simplifies their security issues in some ways, and produces a slow, steady income stream all at once.

That doesn't mean anyone else is required to find it an improvement in any way, shape or form, and for some of us, its an active deficit as long as it has no offline mode.
Paragon is offline   #99
Toblakai
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Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 437

Old September 2nd, 2017, 10:49 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paragon View Post
and produces a slow, steady income stream all at once.
I suspect $2/month doesn't provide a whole lot of profit after expenses. It would take 4000+ subscribers to just cover the cost of a server admin.
Toblakai is offline   #100
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