WH: 8th Ed

[Mr_Rose]

Originally Posted by db2000

Mr Rose -
hey there fella, calm down. I confess already ;0) Did not look at the note on the others my apologies (no book present at time).

Re the Corpse cart, not sure how to interpret that one really - faq says Page 90 – Necromancer Options, Corpse Cart Add “Count the cost against your allowance for Heroes.”

You are right of course but what happens here exactly? Cost with Necromancer counts as hero cost; cost without necromancer counts as core but not towards minimum core I guess? Is this your interpretation?

First, do not presume to know me well enough to know my state of mind. I will thank you to be less rude in future.

Second, what other interpretation is there? Mounts count towards the mounted character's points so they should count with him in the heroes section. Carts without guys riding them count towards not very much at all.

[silks]

Guys I'm not an admin on here but please don't mess up our thread with arguments
Play nice

Silks

[Brother Bart]

Skaven List...Not sure about this, cuz I don't have the book at work with me...but the Squeel Gnawtooth character is a unit upgrade to the giant rats unit....does he upgrade an existing packmaster, or is he "in addition" to any packmasters that you buy for the unit. The points in AB say (+100) but the points in the roster show as (108). I'm assuming the 8 pts is for a packmaster, but I'm not sure that's right.

[Mr_Rose]

Originally Posted by Brother Bart

Skaven List...Not sure about this, cuz I don't have the book at work with me...but the Squeel Gnawtooth character is a unit upgrade to the giant rats unit....does he upgrade an existing packmaster, or is he "in addition" to any packmasters that you buy for the unit. The points in AB say (+100) but the points in the roster show as (108). I'm assuming the 8 pts is for a packmaster, but I'm not sure that's right.

That's right; Most (all?) of the special champions are upgrades to an existing model, just like a regular champion, as I recall.
It's certainly the case for Skweel.
One thing though; if you have 25 rats and five packmasters then upgrade one to Skweel, then take away Skweel again, you are left with 25 rats and 4 packmasters; is there a way to make the "downgrade" auto-add a normal packmaster to the unit?

[Lord Kahlain]

Quarrellers upgraded to Rangers are not getting the option to add throwing axes... It's working properly for Longbeards and Warriors.

BTW: Thanks for all your hard work on this.

[mandril_hydana]

I think you guys have got the Corpse Cart thing wrong.

It is clearly a Core choice and should be moved back to the core list. It counts against Hero points only when taken as a mount for Necromancer.

And as per the Amendments Section of the VC FAQ V2010 1.1 (refering to page 88) the rule that excludes Corpse Carts, Dire Wolves and Bat Swarms is to be ignored. As is every other word on the page. Which leads me to belive all these core choices now count towards the minimum points for core. I know the 8th ed rule book refers to units that dont count towards the minimum but as written I see these VC units excluded from this group. I presume that this is nOt inteded and the FAQ Amendment should be changed to esnure that these VC units are subject to this rule.

I know there is a note on each units entry but I presume this is to be ignored as it as reference to the rule on page88. However, I expect this will be found to be the wrong interpretation.



Please check this as it is only my conclusion to date. Happy to be proven wrong but woud like to see an actual page/book reference if possible.

Thanks guys .

[db2000]

Originally Posted by Mr_Rose

First, do not presume to know me well enough to know my state of mind. I will thank you to be less rude in future.

Second, what other interpretation is there? Mounts count towards the mounted character's points so they should count with him in the heroes section. Carts without guys riding them count towards not very much at all.

Not presuming to know you at all fella, in fact all my posts have been polite, honest and jovial to a degree. But it must be said you are wearing your state of mind on your rolled up sleeves at present. Why I do not presume to know? But being rude to someone posting honest comments should cause you to stop and think about being less rude/sarcastic in future yourself!

Anyway good luck with your life and all that you do but be less fractious going forward and take the threads that are posted here in their intended nature. Not everyone is a rules lawyer and personal opinions, lack of knowledge and differences are what spark new imaginations and interest to the gaming universe we all love. Who knows maybe we have met and played across the table from one another.

Once again best of luck to ya!

[Mr_Rose]

Originally Posted by mandril_hydana

I think you guys have got the Corpse Cart thing wrong.

It is clearly a Core choice and should be moved back to the core list. It counts against Hero points only when taken as a mount for Necromancer.

And as per the Amendments Section of the VC FAQ V2010 1.1 (refering to page 88) the rule that excludes Corpse Carts, Dire Wolves and Bat Swarms is to be ignored. As is every other word on the page. Which leads me to belive all these core choices now count towards the minimum points for core. I know the 8th ed rule book refers to units that dont count towards the minimum but as written I see these VC units excluded from this group. I presume that this is nOt inteded and the FAQ Amendment should be changed to esnure that these VC units are subject to this rule.

I know there is a note on each units entry but I presume this is to be ignored as it as reference to the rule on page88. However, I expect this will be found to be the wrong interpretation.

The thing is, how do we know the words to be ignored on p.88 aren't a reference to the rules in the actual unit entries, since neither of them says "see p.XX" or otherwise makes reference to any other page?
Also, the Errata/FAQs have been pretty thorough; why wouldn't they also remove the relevant notes if the were to be ignored?

PS @ db2000; your projection is showing. You might want to put that away before it trips you up.

[Romulus68]

The new Banner that adds +1 to Leadership is not adding it to the profile. It should look something like how the Hand Weapon/Shield worked. On that regard. hw/shield bonus is still showing in system.

Leadership 9/10

It needs to pass bonus to the BsB or the unit.

[mandril_hydana]

Originally Posted by Mr_Rose

The thing is, how do we know the words to be ignored on p.88 aren't a reference to the rules in the actual unit entries, since neither of them says "see p.XX" or otherwise makes reference to any other page?
Also, the Errata/FAQs have been pretty thorough; why wouldn't they also remove the relevant notes if the were to be ignored?

Excellent Point... I am not very familar with how these things are resolved. But for me its simply the fact that in the unit entry it says 'Note:' before this reference. Its not under the special rules or any other place that actual unit rules should be.

I think they are supposed to be excluded from counting as core but to me thats not what the rules and FAQ's result in.

I will be happy if we can just get the CC back into Core on AB where it belongs. Really not sure how it ended up in the Hero list.

As for the FAQs I have been trolling through them and have found some (only very few) clashes. Eg. The 8th ed rulebook faq says that you dont get VP's unless you kill both the character and their mount. But the Bretonnian one acrually details points values for Leonceur and Beaquis (not sure on correct spelling). This would seem to me like an obvious contradiction.