Feedback from completely new user

[whump]

Hmm...I almost hate responding to this post because it bumps up a thread with a thumbs-down icon to the top of the board.

Please don't be. Rob's reply is exemplary.

If any novices, new users or fence-sitters are reading, I encourage you to take the plunge and get RW or if you have it to stick with it. There's a learning curve but it is very customisable, and most importantly it's being actively improved and updated all the time by LWD.

I say this because I'm a novice GM like @Mrakvampire and when I first got RW my reaction was similar. It's obvious when you open it that it allows lots of detail to be put in, but it took me a long time to work out how to put things in 'broad strokes' - making a custom topic with just name, player text and GM text for example. When you are presented with lots of detail as a user, there is a psychological tendency to think you "should" be using it, especially if you just paid for a nice powerful piece of software. I remember sitting there thinking, ok I know what the buttons do... but where on earth do I start?

So Rob's reply here really helps to clarify the sheer challenge of making software like this when there are so many ways different people manage their games, and it REALLY helps people like me to have confidence that a) LWD are committed to the product and b) they take feedback seriously. Believe it or not many companies don't do this!

THAT SAID... I think that what's really needed is some more videos (if they are there I missed them), showing examples of inputting content in different ways (map approach, relationship approach, etc.). The tutorial videos show well what all the buttons do but don't demonstrate the process of going from the start (a cool idea in your head), to the end (data in RW and ready for the game). The tutorial realm is, in my view, a little too sparse to show this effectively.

[rob]

Originally Posted by MNBlockHead

Hmm...I almost hate responding to this post because it bumps up a thread with a thumbs-down icon to the top of the board.

What @whump said. It's valuable for prospective new users to go in with both eyes wide open. If this thread better prepares a new user before diving in, then that's a good thing in the long run - both for the user AND for Realm Works' success, since we want users ultimately saying good things about the product. And if this thread ends up scaring off a few prospective users who aren't prepared to make an investment in the learning curve, that's also a good thing overall, since those prospective users probably weren't going to take the time to really have a great experience with the product.

[Dervish]

I have a love hate relationship with Realm Works. I love the depth you can get with the data structures. However like the OP i believe Realm works is too busy and in a couple of cases i have had to alter a catagory/topic structure to work with my thought process.

[MNBlockHead]

I think more videos is always a good thing, but I find that what is most helpful is experienced DMs sharing and SHOWING how they built their realms. For example, look at the screenshots that Exmortis and other have shared. I am very eager for the content market, not only for a convenient way to buy content to integrate into my realm, but also to see how experienced RPG-adventure designers organize the content in RW.

I've tried to get a virtual-user group started, using web conferences to share how we use the software, but this has never gone anywhere. Luckily, I live in an area that seems to have a lot of RW users. I'm meeting with another forum member in-person at a local game shop to go over our use of RW. If there is anyone else in the Twin Cities (Minnesota, USA) area who would like to get together at The Source to discuss world building using RW, PM me.

Also, Rob, I would like to suggest that you think about creating a new forum dedicated specifically to sharing examples. Sort of like how the Cartographers Guild provides members with a forum to show off their work and solicit suggestions for improvement. Obviously it is easier to post a map, but It is not hard to take a number of screen shot to give folks the gist of how you are organizing things. And, once the content market is live, we can simply post notices of realms we are willing to share.

[Exmortis]

Originally Posted by MNBlockHead

Also, Rob, I would like to suggest that you think about creating a new forum dedicated specifically to sharing examples. Sort of like how the Cartographers Guild provides members with a forum to show off their work and solicit suggestions for improvement. Obviously it is easier to post a map, but It is not hard to take a number of screen shot to give folks the gist of how you are organizing things. And, once the content market is live, we can simply post notices of realms we are willing to share.

TOPS idea! That may help new and perspective users see RW in action.

Also thanks for the mention.

[Jamz]

I agree it's very intimidating. We get the same complaints for MapTool. But both are really only as complicated as you need it to be.

Rob, would it make sense to have some options when creating a new realm? Something like:

Level of Detail?
o Encounter
o Module
o Campaign
o World

With each filtering/hiding topics/categories or what not?

[Mystic Lemur]

Originally Posted by MNBlockHead

Hmm...I almost hate responding to this post because it bumps up a thread with a thumbs-down icon to the top of the board.

I like to read negative reviews. It tells me what somebody thought was the worst possible thing about the product. If I read a bunch of 1-star reviews and think "That doesn't sound so bad" then I usually am more inclined to buy than if I see a lot of generic 4,5-star reviews.

What I took from his review: 1) He prefers running from the adventure book with paper notes. 2) He isn't the type of user to think programs like Photoshop or the Gimp are worth taking the time to learn. 3) He stopped using an incredibly useful program (Masterplan, a program I used previously) because he couldn't get past the focus on 4e to see the incredibly useful things the program could still do (link plots, maps, combat and trap statblocks, etc. All of which Realm Works does better, I have to say). Basically, he isn't the same type of user as me, and his bad experience isn't likely to impact my purchase of the product if I were on the fence.

[adzling]

I have been using Realmworks for about a month now and I have to agree with the OP, the interface is a total mess.

IMHO the best thing Lone Wolf could do is retain someone who understands interface design to overhaul the app.

This would be FAR more beneficial than continuing to implement additional features.

As it stands I know three people who purchases this app (myself included), all of us are mature, older professionals with years of gaming and software experience under our belts.

I am the only one still using the Realmworks, the rest tossed it in disgust at the poor interface.

If Lone Wolf does not find someone who understands interfaces and focuses on improving things dramatically this app will remain the province of the few hardcore dedicated users.

Which would be a shame as it has some really powerful and useful features.

[Mystic Lemur]

The interface is "bad" and you think they should make it "better." Do you have any specifics? What's not working? What's frustrating? LWD is not going to retain someone just to work on the interface, but the existing design team could certainly work on specific issues if they knew about them.

[monsterfurby]

Originally Posted by Mystic Lemur

The interface is "bad" and you think they should make it "better." Do you have any specifics? What's not working? What's frustrating? LWD is not going to retain someone just to work on the interface, but the existing design team could certainly work on specific issues if they knew about them.

To be honest, even though I bought RW for my entire group and am using it once in a while, I have to agree with the OP on this count. The interface doesn't feel smooth (changing pages has considerably lag that is not PC-performance related), the gray backdrop and massive spacing between snippets makes things unappealing overall and pointless elements like the "..." next to, e.g. Character portraits (where I don't even know what I would be supposed to write there) are 'stressful' to me. More specifically, RW constantly makes me feel as if I am missing crucial information when in fact I could just have everything that's relevant in a Word document or, in my case, in a Roll20 character sheet or handout.

That's another point: if Realm Works, at some point in the future, will integrate with the Roll20 API, I'm sure I'll use it as a great offline interface for adding and organizing campaign content. Right now, however, I find that its somewhat slow and overdesigned structure hinders my creativity rather than aiding it.

I should probably note that unlike the OP, I don't run published adventures or settings on principle (it's easier for me to come up with my own than to study something someone else thought up). Maybe it's more useful for those, but I had hoped that it would help me fill in the blank spaces in my own setting more easily.