Furious and Bane Seem to Stack

morval · February 13th, 2017, 02:37 PM

I've searched the internet and it seems there is a case for both sides.

In Herolab they seem to stack which is great for my character, but also as a GM I'm leaning towards them not stacking.

I'm thinking along the lines that both abilities do the same thing, act upon the original enhancement bonus of the weapon. S they both simply bring the weapon up to +3 from a +1 for example, but Bane would also still add +2d6 to the weapon attack.

But you could say the ability adds +2 and then the 2nd ability adds +2 to that, so a +1 weapon would become +5 when raging and opponent is correct for Bane.

Any thoughts on this?

Togainu · 10:59 PM

For bug reports check here. A bug is anything you think isn't working as it should be. Than you will also get the answer from the source. Thoughts don't really matter in cases like this unless it can be supported by rules. So getting an answer from Lonewolf is the only real option here on why they choose one or another. They might even have had contact with Paizo for example about this. (wouldn't be the first time they contact them for corner cases)

morval · February 16th, 2017, 11:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Togainu

For bug reports check here. A bug is anything you think isn't working as it should be. Than you will also get the answer from the source. Thoughts don't really matter in cases like this unless it can be supported by rules. So getting an answer from Lonewolf is the only real option here on why they choose one or another. They might even have had contact with Paizo for example about this. (wouldn't be the first time they contact them for corner cases)

Technically its not a bug since I can't find anywhere official that says it should work one way or the other. If I found two luck bonuses stacking then I would write it up as a bug. I was just seeing if anyone had any thoughts on how this should be played, a discussion on the merits of both sides. I'm just trying decide how it should work in my games. Maybe someone had a reference to how it should work and then I would submit it as a bug.

Dami · February 17th, 2017, 02:34 AM

I'm be inclined to say the two bonuses shouldn't stack. (As a GM I won't allow it.) Both weapon abilities grant a +2 enhancement bonus, and bonuses of the same type don't stack.

Togainu · 02:48 AM

The stacking is a none issue cause it makes it better than it is at the time of hitting for bane. Both views are correct and both views are incorrect.

The first cause for this is the furious calling out normal and bane calling out actual. The actual bit can be taken in 2 ways. The normal bonus like furious or the bonus the weapon has while hitting the target (seeing furious is active cause you are raging already the actual bonus while hitting of a +1 weapon would be +3 at the time and go up to +5).

The other thing you can start arguing is the order in which they are applied. This comes back to the reading of actual. But if all bonus apply when hitting the target. It becomes on issue of in what order you let them trigger. Bane before furious or furious before bane. If you do bane before furious you would only get a +3 (Bane adds +2 to the actual +1 at the moment and furious doing nothing seeing the normal bonus is +1 and adding furious to normal would only make it +3 as well).

This really is a GM call that you are playing with. There are no solid rules for situations like this.

Ualaa · February 17th, 2017, 04:46 AM

Bane
"... Against its designated foe, its effective enhancement bonus is +2 better than its normal enhancement bonus. It deals an extra 2d6 points of damage against the foe."

Furious
"... When the wielder is raging or under the effect of a rage spell, the weapon's enhancement bonus is +2 better than normal..."

I'd personally rule that either (or both) are increasing the bonus separately or collectively, from say a base of +1 to a modified +3.
Neither says that it is increasing from the current bonus, but both say from the base bonus.

If a creature were a half orc, and you had a weapon that was both Bane Humans and Bane Orcs, would you allow the double bane?

Togainu · 05:16 AM

Bane d20pfsrd
Bane Archives of nethys
and the core rulebook uses actual as well (at least the 6th printing that I have)
as well as the print I have of ultimate equipment

Don't know where you got the text for bane from but it say actual not normal enhancement bonus

Ualaa · February 17th, 2017, 10:37 PM

My quote came directly from Hero Lab.

Dami Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 1,089 February 17th, 2017, 02:34 AM	I'm be inclined to say the two bonuses shouldn't stack. (As a GM I won't allow it.) Both weapon abilities grant a +2 enhancement bonus, and bonuses of the same type don't stack.
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Togainu Senior Member Join Date: May 2014 Posts: 292 February 17th, 2017, 04:59 AM	Bane d20pfsrd Bane Archives of nethys and the core rulebook uses actual as well (at least the 6th printing that I have) as well as the print I have of ultimate equipment Don't know where you got the text for bane from but it say actual not normal enhancement bonus Last edited by Togainu; February 17th, 2017 at 05:16 AM.
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Ualaa Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: Vancouver, Canada. Posts: 813 February 17th, 2017, 10:37 PM	My quote came directly from Hero Lab.
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