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MagicSN
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Old January 30th, 2016, 03:32 AM
Hi!

When the official 5e Dataset came out for me of course a comparision between the official one and my own 5e Dataset was interesting. Here are the results. Please note that "my version" is NOT available to other people due to two reasons:

a) I would not want to destroy sales for Wolf Lair, so if I would anytime release anything it would be at a much later time
b) The incomplete SRD, I do not want to work a lot on removing code from my implementation to make it SRD-compatible. This would be really a LOT of work, as non-SRD-stuff is all over the place in my implementation. Also I am a coder, not a lawyer, I want to avoid that I "miss" an occurance of a non-SRD-item.

1. GUI

The GUI of the official dataset is much superior to my own (which is based on the 4e dataset). It looks much more polished, and the internal code is - I assume, without seeing it - probably "less hacky" than mine is in parts.

How do I select a magic weapon/armor, though? Could not find out that? Only other magic items I found.

2. Multiclass

The official version has full multiclass support, while my version only offers two classes at the same time. On the other hand I found it is easier to click together a levelup on my version. The "multiclass chooser" for my version is a bit unintuitive, though, while the one of the official version is very intuitive.

3. Character sheet

The character sheet is not so easy to decide. I like the "resource-tracker" of the official version a lot, which seems to track ALL resources, while mine only tracks some (and some more are tracked on top of page 1), so in this field the official version is superior. Also having the character portrait of page 1 is very nice (on mine it is on page 2). On the other hand having a list of all attack spells with DC, Attack value and Damage (!) they do on page 1 in my implementation is I think MUCH better than the official version. So in play you see all the data you need. I think it would be nice if this would still get added to the official version. Also it seems stuff like "War Mage's Wand" is not included into the calculation of spell attack values in the official version. Other stuff seems to be included (the Flame Blade of course, though
I like the much "shorter" print output in my version better, prefer +2d6 Fire to "plus 2d6 fire when ablaze".

I also miss a Spell Slot Display in the official version.

Personally I would prefer Page 1 from my version, combined with Page 2 from the official version, with the Spell Slot Display (or Spellpoint Cost display, depending on setting) of my version added to Page 2. And then the Power Cards from my version.

4. Optional Rules

I like the optional rules of Spellpoint System, Skip Power Cards for stuff in the GF9 Cards, and of "let the player roll all Saves" (different calculation of DC). Would be great if these could still be added to the official version. I would be willing to provide code from my version if this is any help.

I also like the "Campaign Chooser" in my version, where if you for example select "Forgotten Realms" stuff from Thule or Dragonlance is not displayed in the GUI, but that's a minor feature.

5. Some disadvantages of my version not mentioned

For my version it is quite tricky to add a new class (new spec is easy, though) due to the a bit tricky implementation I did. This could become an issue "along the line" when more source books are released for D&D Next.

Also the wizard spellbook and the spells you choose for the day selection is using a VERY unintuitive GUI, while this is very nicely done in the offical version (though it works some way for both versions).

Also the "you chose too many spells" checker in my version still has the occasional bug I did not yet root out (but it's still possible to print out the character even then).

Everything else seems to be the same status of implementation for both versions (though of course my version has also a lot of non-SRD stuff implemented, which is also a reason I cannot release anything as it is not easy to separate the two of them, SRD-stuff and non-SRD-stuff).

Overall I think the Hero Lab team did a great job on the datafiles. I hope they can still add some features (especially on the Character sheet - and as I said, I would be willing to provide some code - I think it is not possible to modify the character sheet with the editor without the .dat file provided ).

For myselves I will probably stay with my version for now, as some of the missing features are dealbreakers for me.

Best regards,
MagicSN

Last edited by MagicSN; January 30th, 2016 at 08:43 AM.
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MagicSN
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Old January 30th, 2016, 08:27 AM
Hi!

I show my suggestions for new features in the following with a screenshot from my version of the 5e datafiles:

http://postimg.org/image/wx43s4hh3/

Explanations:

The part in the top left corner shows how on the first page of the character sheet all attack spells/abilities are shown with Attack roll/DC and (!) damage. So during the game you only need to look at the first page of your sheet during combat and only rarely reference the spell description. Actually the roll/DC value would not be needed for most abilities as your DC/attack roll value is listed in Lone Wolf's version on page 2 (though I suggest to move this to page 1 in case my suggestion would be taken up). These values include stuff like War Mage's Wand etc.

The strange listing of the DCs (3/15) is an optional houserule activated - 15 is the normal DC, 3 is if the player rolls the DC for the enemy. Basically if the player rolls a 12, the result is 12+3 = 15, which means the player says "I got 15", then the DM checks if the enemy the player cast his spell on has at least +5 in the Saving throw modificator (which would be enough to pass the Save, if not it does not pass). Basically it is always 10+Modificator.

This houserule (opposed to the one suggested by WotC it is mathematically sound, BTW ^^) makes it possible that a caster can actually ROLL something when casting a spell. At least in our group players prefer this. And the DM has to roll less.

Another example shows the same for a non-caster-character, though this change is not really needed as the character sheet of Lone Wolf already DOES show melee/ranged data (though again I suggest to move it to Page 1 for quick reference). As you can see it includes modification to attack value and damage for magic items, feats, etc. ("Flameheart" is a houserule item, basically a lower-level version of the Flaming Sword with only d4 extra damage - and the display is "shorter" than in the official dataset, though the talkative "plus 2d6 fire when ablaze" in the official dataset is only a minor issue as their character sheet is much "shorter" so they have more place on the sheet to BE talkative ;-) Mine is a bit cluttered with all sorts of information, I admit...).

The next part of the image shows the optional spellpoint rule, complete with spellpoint cost listed (Spellpoints are an optional rule of DMG, not sure if it is in the SRD). To the right of it you see the spell point slots which are listed if the spellpoint rule is NOT activated.

And the last part of the image shows the "campaign chooser" - certain things like languages and gods will only be displayed if a compatible campaign for them is chosen for this character. To reduce the amount of stuff shown, only show the needed stuff.

As I said I would be willing to help with the implementation, hand over example implementation from my own 5e datafiles or even implement it for the official one (but then I would need access to the .dat files I guess).

I am really interested in these changes, as some of these features are for me ones I do not want to skip (basically what makes it not possible for me to switch over to the official dataset yet ;-) )

All in all I would very much prefer an "all datfiles" version so I can add all features I want myselves ;-)

Thanks in advance (and for all the good work!)

Best regards,
MagicSN

Last edited by MagicSN; January 30th, 2016 at 08:45 AM.
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MagicSN
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Old January 30th, 2016, 09:01 AM
Hi!

Just noticed the final version (1.0) *does* have spell slot display included, so one less "missing feature" ;-) Seems just the Beta did not have that (or I was "blind").

MagicSN
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Aaron
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Old January 30th, 2016, 09:41 AM
Yes, spell slot tracking was one of the last things added, it wasn't in the beta you were sent.
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karrel
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Old January 30th, 2016, 10:41 AM
any idea when subraces will be added
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Dervish
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Old January 30th, 2016, 11:08 AM
when individual users add them. LWD can not add them without violating their agreement with WotC
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karrel
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Old January 30th, 2016, 11:32 AM
well if anyone does it let me know plz
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rob
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Old January 30th, 2016, 02:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MagicSN View Post
3. Character sheet

The character sheet is not so easy to decide. I like the "resource-tracker" of the official version a lot, which seems to track ALL resources, while mine only tracks some (and some more are tracked on top of page 1), so in this field the official version is superior. Also having the character portrait of page 1 is very nice (on mine it is on page 2). On the other hand having a list of all attack spells with DC, Attack value and Damage (!) they do on page 1 in my implementation is I think MUCH better than the official version. So in play you see all the data you need. I think it would be nice if this would still get added to the official version. Also it seems stuff like "War Mage's Wand" is not included into the calculation of spell attack values in the official version. Other stuff seems to be included (the Flame Blade of course, though
I like the much "shorter" print output in my version better, prefer +2d6 Fire to "plus 2d6 fire when ablaze".

I also miss a Spell Slot Display in the official version.

Personally I would prefer Page 1 from my version, combined with Page 2 from the official version, with the Spell Slot Display (or Spellpoint Cost display, depending on setting) of my version added to Page 2. And then the Power Cards from my version.
If you prefer your character sheet, you should be able to create it as a custom sheet for the 5E data files we just released. There are likely other users who have similar preferences and would appreciate having it, just like AncientOne's sheet for Pathfinder is quite popular. I'm saying this simply because your comparison sounds pretty positive overall, so it's quite possible you'll switch over once a critical mass of non-SRD content is ported over. I don't want you thinking that you'll need to forego your preferred character sheet layout if you switch over.

Thanks for taking the time to do the comparison! It's awesome to hear that everyone generally likes the way we've implemented everything thus far!

EDIT: Doh! Just saw the separate thread where you already raised this subject and Aaron got back to you. Never mind...

Last edited by rob; January 30th, 2016 at 02:29 PM.
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MagicSN
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Old January 31st, 2016, 04:33 AM
That it was possible to Pathfinder sounds interesting. Will I be able to "edit" the existing character sheet without having to start from scratch? Basically only add a few features here and there? Well, I guess I will wait till Aaron looked up the data and replied.

Actually I like your character sheet, there are just a few things missing I would like to overtake from my sheet (and sadly all of them "must-have" things for me.

And NP I tried to do a very objective comparision (taking that I am obviously biased, that I like the work I did myselves on my version of my datafiles). The things I like best about your implementation are the multiclass, the overview screen for subclasses and the spellbook implementation and - probably most important - the resource tracking. I have resource tracking in as well in my implementation, but it is not as generic as yours and cannot feature all resources (for magic items I have to implement it manually for each magic item for example, in my implementation).

BTW, I am reachable by private email at tirionareonwe AT gmail.com.

Best regards,
MagicSN

BTW: One more thing I would change: Remove the requirement of entering the XP to levelup. Many groups play with the "levelup at certain points of the story" stuff. Like it is it is only an extra required click on the GUI (in my opinion at least ;-) ).
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Grimmric
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Old January 31st, 2016, 08:32 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MagicSN View Post
BTW: One more thing I would change: Remove the requirement of entering the XP to levelup. Many groups play with the "levelup at certain points of the story" stuff. Like it is it is only an extra required click on the GUI (in my opinion at least ;-) ).
If you create a new character you can choose Advancement speed.
If you choose Milestone advancement you just need to add 1xp each time you level.
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