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LimpingNinja
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Old January 12th, 2020, 03:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Farling View Post
Oh, if software was really this simple! ;-)
Heh, most software isn't; but JSON is usually the output of almost any well-built service built nowadays and ingestion really isn't that hard. ;-) Of course, that assumes they built it in any kind of recognizable manner. Ed: I'm biased and spoiled though, internally at AWS it's a shit-ton of self-service APIs :-)

Last edited by LimpingNinja; January 12th, 2020 at 03:45 PM.
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Joe
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Old January 13th, 2020, 10:20 AM
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Originally Posted by skald1 View Post
HL Classic was used in my campaigns for as long as it's been around. It was so prevalent among my players, if HLC didn't have the item (and I bought into $$$ worth of Pathfinder supplements) the players couldn't have it. But the number one goal was for me to have a repository of everyone's sheets. With .POR files, this was possible.

Today as we play PF2E, I'm less likely to use HLO as it's a standalone tool; I can't import what the players have created. If I updated the player's sheets with XP, items, etc., I could send them their sheets. They were able to immediately import, view the changes, keep notes in the Hero Lab journals, and send it all back.

This isn't about 3rd party anything for me. It's about organization, ease of use, and portability.

In a world where most everything can be saved and imported, this was a backwards step for Lone Wolf Dev and a rather surprising one at that.

Steve
With HLO we envision a completely different model, where there's less annoying bookkeeping like this (emailing files around, dealing with out-of-date files, conflicting versions, etc). You may have seen threads about the upcoming Campaigns feature, which will allow players to join their characters to a GM's game, much like an online multiplayer game.

We are hoping to launch the beta of this very soon, and while it won't cover all of the cases you mentioned above initially, our goal is to build it up such that it erases the need for any such manual drudgery.

None of that is to say that we won't introduce import/export at some point for other reasons, but we are not planning on relying on it to facilitate group play.
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dacoobob
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Old January 13th, 2020, 11:21 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe View Post
our goal is to build it up such that it erases the need for any such manual drudgery.
that'll be great if/when it gets released, but in the meantime we're SOL.

i guess the real question is "why was HLO released in such an incomplete state to begin with?"

that's more of a company management issue than a programming one though.

Last edited by dacoobob; January 13th, 2020 at 11:23 AM.
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Shadowfoot
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Old January 13th, 2020, 11:26 AM
Without the group license I don't expect to use the Campaigns feature. I know that some of my players haven't and won't buy an account. How useful will the feature be if one character isn't in it?
Most of my players sent me their characters via PDF which I then added to my account so I could validate the characters and understand what their capabilities are. This isn't straightforward as the PDF doesn't include all the details needed.
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Farling
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Old January 13th, 2020, 11:47 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dacoobob View Post
that'll be great if/when it gets released, but in the meantime we're SOL.

i guess the real question is "why was HLO released in such an incomplete state to begin with?"

that's more of a company management issue than a programming one though.
I don't know what SOL means.

But the company released the "single-user" capabilities allowing individual character generation first.

Now they are adding the "multi-user" capabilities - via the campaign theatre.

There are more features to come in the future - presumably you wouldn't even want the campaign theatre available until everything that they want to put into the product has already been added? (Since in your eyes even with campaign theatre it would be in an "incomplete state".)

Farling

Author of the Realm Works Import (http://forums.wolflair.com/showthread.php?t=58156) and Output tools (http://forums.wolflair.com/showthread.php?t=59981)
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Ualaa
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Old January 13th, 2020, 02:17 PM
SOL = Sh*t Out of Luck.



I'll guess that Hero Lab Online was released incomplete, because it's an evolving product that may never be in a final and finished state... ie., it's constantly being improved.

Also, at the time of release it had enough features done to be a useful tool at that point.

And lastly, Lone Wolf would have revenue coming in to cover their costs, as the product was being improved upon.
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Joe
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Old January 13th, 2020, 02:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dacoobob View Post
that'll be great if/when it gets released, but in the meantime we're SOL.

i guess the real question is "why was HLO released in such an incomplete state to begin with?"

that's more of a company management issue than a programming one though.
One short and easy answer is that we're a small company with limited resources, and nearly everything we do is paid for by what we release. Sometimes that means making hard calls, like releasing things before they have all the features we want, or before they have all the polish we'd like. Such is the life of the scrappy, independent developer.

Personally, I'm grateful to everyone who supports us, despite the bumpy road it sometimes is. Your willingness to stick with us through thick and thin is what keeps me and my pups fed, but more importantly, keeps me working on HLO to make it better.
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thaX
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Old January 15th, 2020, 06:47 AM
The reason HLO was envisioned and released was to have the resources available to be able to do up the Starfinder Ship statitics, which HLC would not have an easy time doing, or even may not be able to do at all. Starfinder was made HLO exclusive.

So now any new license will likely use the App instead of the Program.
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skald1
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Old January 20th, 2020, 07:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe View Post
With HLO we envision a completely different model, where there's less annoying bookkeeping like this (emailing files around, dealing with out-of-date files, conflicting versions, etc).
Oh, I would certainly agree there are far better ways to share instead of ye olde timey ways.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe View Post
You may have seen threads about the upcoming Campaigns feature, which will allow players to join their characters to a GM's game, much like an online multiplayer game.
I have and very much look forward to it, whenever it's released.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe View Post
We are hoping to launch the beta of this very soon, and while it won't cover all of the cases you mentioned above initially, our goal is to build it up such that it erases the need for any such manual drudgery.
Which will, undoubtedly, be lovely. My complaint was the lack of the feature now that, while depricated later on by Campaign Theater perhaps, would allow for a continuity of workflow for those migrating from HLC.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe View Post
None of that is to say that we won't introduce import/export at some point for other reasons, but we are not planning on relying on it to facilitate group play.
Understood, however unfortunate.
I assume Campaign Theater is offered at a separate sub?
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skald1
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Old January 20th, 2020, 08:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Shadowfoot View Post
This isn't straightforward as the PDF doesn't include all the details needed.
Bingo.
Pathfinder 2E. PDF shows stats, not how they were arrived. The complexity of Pathfinder 2E makes it difficult at best to reverse engineer higher level characters only so they could be imported on the GM's side.
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