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Toblakai
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Old August 5th, 2018, 11:44 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dballing View Post
No, no, no, don't victim-blame here.

This isn't "don't like change", this is "The new product LWD has created doesn't fit my needs as a consumer, and is therefore useless to me."
There is definitely a group of people who don’t like change. Just read the forums.
There are the very small group of people that live in the sticks and have crappy internet (not sure what they do to update hlc maybe drive into town?)
There are the people that can’t afford 25/yr but they shouldn’t be buying hlc then either.
There there are a few that, um, not sure what they don’t like.


HLO is more accessible too, usable on any device with a browser. Not sure if lwd is going to make apple’s 64 bit cutoff date so may lose Mac support for hlc too.
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dballing
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Old August 5th, 2018, 11:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Toblakai View Post
There is definitely a group of people who don’t like change. Just read the forums.
OK, fair, but it sounded like you were painting everyone with a broad brush.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toblakai View Post
There are the very small group of people that live in the sticks and have crappy internet (not sure what they do to update hlc maybe drive into town?)
Well you might well have "I have internet at home, but not where we play", or the parallel "We specifically try to keep people offline while playing so they can be engaged with each other and not be distracted. (and one can argue "police yourself" but in the modern era, it's easier to avoid the distractions when you simply don't already have the devices in your hand.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toblakai View Post
There are the people that can’t afford 25/yr but they shouldn’t be buying hlc then either.
Well, if you buy HLC, you pay, what was it? $40? once. Now, I'll certainly contend that's not a good long-term business model for LWD (who should be more aggressive about charging for upgrades, etc., to keep a revenue stream there) but HLC is essentially a one-time purchase rather than an ongoing expense.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toblakai View Post
HLO is more accessible too, usable on any device with a browser. Not sure if lwd is going to make apple’s 64 bit cutoff date so may lose Mac support for hlc too.
"more accessible" for you perhaps. Less accessible, as noted, for places with bad connectivity, etc. I know plenty of folks who've spent a lot of time playing D&D, PF, etc., on downtime in combat zones. Sketchy-as-hell internet access there.
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ShadowChemosh
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Old August 5th, 2018, 12:06 PM
If you don’t allow gadgets at the game table why are you upset with HLO? I mean you use HLO at home to make a character and then you print the character sheet. Exactly like you would for HLC.

I am totally confused based on your comments what you are upset about. Without emotion can you explain logically how HLO works different for your group than HLC would?

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Last edited by ShadowChemosh; August 5th, 2018 at 12:08 PM.
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dballing
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Old August 5th, 2018, 12:18 PM
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Originally Posted by ShadowChemosh View Post
If you don’t allow gadgets at the game table why are you upset with HLO? I mean you use HLO at home to make a character and then you print the character sheet. Exactly like you would for HLC.

I am totally confused based on your comments what you are upset about. Without emotion can you explain logically how HLO works different for your group than HLC would?
Well, as I mentioned upthread, we do from time to time go play at a remote cabin in the mountains (gaming weekend). Updating a character between sessions there (while using HLC) is painless. Updating a character between sessions there (with HLO) is impossible.

I can see how my referencing two different "plusses" for HLC (remote site as well as no-devices-at-the-table) might've been accidentally conflated.
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ShadowChemosh
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Old August 5th, 2018, 05:36 PM
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Originally Posted by dballing View Post
Well, as I mentioned upthread, we do from time to time go play at a remote cabin in the mountains (gaming weekend). Updating a character between sessions there (while using HLC) is painless. Updating a character between sessions there (with HLO) is impossible.

I can see how my referencing two different "plusses" for HLC (remote site as well as no-devices-at-the-table) might've been accidentally conflated.
Ok yeah leveling a character would be hard. Our group always levels between games so either version works for us.

Hero Lab Resources:
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3.5 D&D (d20) - Community Server Setup
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Hero Lab Help - Hero Lab FAQ, Editor Tutorials and Videos, Editor & Scripting Resources.
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Farling
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Old August 5th, 2018, 11:05 PM
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Originally Posted by ShadowChemosh View Post
Ok yeah leveling a character would be hard. Our group always levels between games so either version works for us.
Even applying various modifiers "on the fly" wouldn't be possible. This means manual work with the paper character sheet to update everything affected by a particular condition or other modifier.

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ShadowChemosh
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Old August 6th, 2018, 06:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Farling View Post
Even applying various modifiers "on the fly" wouldn't be possible. This means manual work with the paper character sheet to update everything affected by a particular condition or other modifier.
Yeah but he said several time gadgets not allowed at the table. So they where already using paper sheet not HLC when gaming. Meaning the other features like spell adjustments and conditions where done manually.

Hence my question on if only useing 10% of the software anyways why did he care it was online only.

Hero Lab Resources:
Pathfinder - d20pfsrd and Pathfinder Pack Setup
3.5 D&D (d20) - Community Server Setup
5E D&D - Community Server Setup
Hero Lab Help - Hero Lab FAQ, Editor Tutorials and Videos, Editor & Scripting Resources.
Created by the community for the community
- Realm Works kickstarter backer (Alpha Wolf) and Beta tester.
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Jamz
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Old August 6th, 2018, 12:31 PM
Sounds like one should create a few versions of the character (at level +1, +2, +3, etc) before heading to the cabin? Personally, I would love to also ban laptops & phones at the table but the #1 use of HL at the table is for the "conditions & buffs" as I don't want to figure all that out in real time.

Coming home from GenCon was a love/hate relationship with HLO for me. It went from:

"Ok, this is cool, making up a paladin on my phone as we drive home!"

to

"!&#$*!@ I65 and it's dead spots...I just hope traffic doesn't slow down to a crawl while in a Sprint dead zone..."

and back to

"Ok, this is cool, making up a paladin on my phone as we drive home!"

Another in my group did like the HLO for Starfinder events at GenCon as he ditched his huge/heavy laptop for an Android tablet using his phone as a hotspot... Although running that hotspot for 8+ hours is a major drain on the battery...

-Jamz

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MNBlockHead
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Old August 6th, 2018, 01:02 PM
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Originally Posted by dballing View Post
Until they solve the unsolvable problem of 'offline access' HLO isn't an option for me or my group (many of our sessions are at a literal cabin in the woods with no internet access, which is by design and not something anyone intends to change).
But it is not unsolvable. DnD Beyond has an app for offline use, for example. HTML5 offline storage may be another option.

It is a matter of development priorities. The number of people who will refuse to use HLO because of no offline storage, while not insignificant, is probably a minority and probably less than the number of people they can attack with online HTML5 compliant access that works on any device with a modern Web browser.

I would guess that if HLO is successful that they will eventually come up with a solution for off-line access.

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Roadie
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Old August 6th, 2018, 11:14 PM
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Originally Posted by MNBlockHead View Post
I would guess that if HLO is successful that they will eventually come up with a solution for off-line access.
I would imagine their main complication on that point would be converting lots of existing code from C or an adjacent language into Javascript. Not only is a lot of the basic philosophy dramatically different, but to do it right you need people deeply familiar in both languages, which is pretty rare these days. The server-driven approach has its downsides, but it's let them have a usable-on-all-devices service up and running in a fraction of the time I'd expect a full port to take.
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