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archamedius
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Old November 12th, 2014, 11:50 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Caledor View Post
You're welcome, and thank you for your reply. Mind though that Loremasters may opt for Undeath in place of the Lore they have the Loremaster rule for as things stand now, with Count Mannfred being the exception as he gets Undeath in addition to his 2 lores. Basically they can either generate normally from Undeath and ignore Loremaster, or apply it. Seeing how you think that loremasters shouldn't get undeath, did you miss this passage?
DoH! I did not see that about loremaster. Is that in the Nagash book or the Warhammer FAQ?

Either way if it's printed it overrides my remarks (obviously) and I am mistaken. I do not believe it invalidates any of my other remarks however.
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Caledor
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Old November 12th, 2014, 12:10 PM
No, it's just how things are now in AB. Anything i wrote was just speculation on my part, since all GW did regarding this matter was writing that sloppy line to grant the undeath lore to wizards. I just went for maximum freedom since there are players who use undeath lore on loremasters that way.
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EdSteiner
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Old November 12th, 2014, 06:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Caledor View Post
No, it's just how things are now in AB. Anything i wrote was just speculation on my part, since all GW did regarding this matter was writing that sloppy line to grant the undeath lore to wizards. I just went for maximum freedom since there are players who use undeath lore on loremasters that way.
I just wanted to chime in as well. As the file maintainers, we try hard to remain neutral. But code is hard to be grey, it's either true or false.
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tunasandwichify
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Old November 13th, 2014, 10:21 AM
The new FAQ states the following:

Page 162 – Spell Generation
At the end of the second paragraph, add:
“The Lore of Undeath is available to any Wizard.”
(see Warhammer Battle Magic: Lore of Undeath or
Warhammer: Nagash, available in digital format at
www.games-workshop.com)

Now since that's under "Spell Generation" I don't know if that applies to Loremasters. BUT, the fact that it says "available to ANY wizard." To me would mean if they are considered a wizard and can cast spells, they should be able to take Undeath.
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archamedius
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Old November 13th, 2014, 04:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tunasandwichify View Post
The new FAQ states the following:

Page 162 – Spell Generation
At the end of the second paragraph, add:
“The Lore of Undeath is available to any Wizard.”
(see Warhammer Battle Magic: Lore of Undeath or
Warhammer: Nagash, available in digital format at
www.games-workshop.com)

Now since that's under "Spell Generation" I don't know if that applies to Loremasters. BUT, the fact that it says "available to ANY wizard." To me would mean if they are considered a wizard and can cast spells, they should be able to take Undeath.
This is a good point, and the crux of the issue. I think the line is delineated where the ability to select spells comes in. Some wizards for whatever reason have their spells predetermined (e.g. warlocks, sister's of thorn, etc.) and as such while they might have access to the lore, they cannot get spells from the lore because their spells are already determined.

Others are required for whatever reason to take a spell from a particular lore (e.g. dragon mage via the warrior mage attribute) and as such are forced to take all spells from that lore since only in special circumstances may a wizard take spells from more than one lore.

One exception that might be considered is the loremaster of hoeth. I don't have the rules in front of me, but I thought he was granted access to the signature spell from the 8 base schools of magic. As it feels like Lore of Undeath is almost becoming a "9th" basic lore there could be an argument for the loremaster having access to Ryze the Grave Caller. That is probably another discussion for a larger audience and one which the ArmyBuilder team might choose to leave alone until the community comes to a clearer consensus on the matter.
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EdSteiner
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Old November 13th, 2014, 09:01 PM
A further one is O&G is Azhag, he is not a wizard he has an enchanted item that say is a wizard and use lore x, are we to assume the enchanted item learns over night since it is the end times how to grant the lore of undeath now. As I read it he should not be allowed to for reason above, however can anybody cite me otherwise, No.
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Caledor
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Old November 14th, 2014, 12:50 PM
IMHO, wizards that have any kind of restriction or special rule regarding the way they generate spell, should be excluded from having undeath. This cuts off all loremasters (with the lone exception of Mazdamundi) in addition to all the mages that already don't have it, whom i mentioned in my previous post. This because the loremaster rule states "The wizard knows all the spell of the chosen lore. The lore in question is normally given in brackets as part of the Loremaster rule." thus they cannot choose undeath. But i'm no GW so, after seeing the dispute where players want to be able to "ignore" loremaster and generate from undeath as normal, i wanted these players to be able to do so.

To Ed. To me it's the opposite instead. The item is worded in a way that is practically identical to the Magic pharagraph that all wizards have so he should gain access to undeath without worries. On the contrary, i wouldn't add undeath to the randomly generated lore of the Wizarding Hat, since the item clearly states how the lore is "chosen" (thus being one of the aforementioned restrictions).
But again, there is nothing in what i said that is even remotely official, so everything is completely open to discussion.

Edit: I forgot to mention it before, but another exception to the "loremasters that can opt for undeath in AB" is Khatep. The reason for him is that he's always the Hierophant, which forces him to chose Nehekhara anyway.

Last edited by Caledor; November 19th, 2014 at 02:33 AM.
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Mc1gamer
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Old November 20th, 2014, 05:00 PM
So when you are guys planning to update the Undead Legions so we can once again use the magic as the rules list, from either book in those units??? I've missed yet another event where I can't build my lists of this software. Tired of using Excel to build the legal lists that everyone (with half a brain, and that isn't biased against Undead) has accepted. Thanks!
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tunasandwichify
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Old November 26th, 2014, 07:42 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mc1gamer View Post
So when you are guys planning to update the Undead Legions so we can once again use the magic as the rules list, from either book in those units??? I've missed yet another event where I can't build my lists of this software. Tired of using Excel to build the legal lists that everyone (with half a brain, and that isn't biased against Undead) has accepted. Thanks!
Same^^ I'm lazy and have gotten used to using AB instead of crunching the numbers myself! LOL

Either, way, thanks for all your hard work guys!
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Caledor
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Old November 26th, 2014, 04:29 PM
Follow this for release dates.
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