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EdSteiner
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Old October 23rd, 2014, 04:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kavash View Post
Krell is listed as Hero, should be a Lord choice
Fixed for nov. release
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Tiger Dave
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Old October 25th, 2014, 01:44 PM
Technically no such thing as Armies of the End Times. The 50% Lords/Heroes is an official update to Warhammer rules. Please see the FAQ at http://www.blacklibrary.com/Download...LEBOOKv1.9.pdf. Note this also includes Lore of Undeath now available to any Wizard as part of baseline rules.

Last edited by Tiger Dave; October 25th, 2014 at 01:46 PM.
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EdSteiner
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Old October 25th, 2014, 02:20 PM
The system will default to end of times in the next release. However pre end of time will remain as an option for to's who do not use of times ruleset in their events
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tunasandwichify
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Old November 4th, 2014, 05:56 PM
I just updated my AB to v3.4c and now my Undead legions list no longer allows the screaming banner on my skeletons or the banner of the barrows on my Grave Guard. Not sure what happened there...
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archamedius
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Old November 5th, 2014, 04:02 AM
Undead Legion lost access to magic items from the VC and TK army books. I did not see an errata in the updates covering this. I understand this to be a hotly contested topic on the internet, however I also understand this subject is not even remotely close to resolved OR FAQ'd by GW.

If you insist on siding against UL having access to those magic items can you please add a switch to allow access so that those who politely disagree with you may still use army builder for army list construction?

Thanks.
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tunasandwichify
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Old November 7th, 2014, 07:13 AM
Note, in the Undead Legions book it specifically states on page 20 first paragraph: "you must use the unit profiles, points costs, equipment, options and special rules found in either Warhammer VC/TK."

Page 84 of VC book: Where it explains "Using the Army List" and shows the stats and such, Options says this: "This is a list of optional weapons and armour, mounts, magic items and other upgrades for units or characters, including the points cost for each..."

So in an UL list, VC can use any and all magic items specific to them in their book and TK can use any magic items specific to them in their book. But they can't swap those items back and forth. ie; liche priest with black periapt.

Please to fix
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archamedius
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Old November 11th, 2014, 10:10 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tunasandwichify View Post
Note, in the Undead Legions book it specifically states on page 20 first paragraph: "you must use the unit profiles, points costs, equipment, options and special rules found in either Warhammer VC/TK."

Page 84 of VC book: Where it explains "Using the Army List" and shows the stats and such, Options says this: "This is a list of optional weapons and armour, mounts, magic items and other upgrades for units or characters, including the points cost for each..."

So in an UL list, VC can use any and all magic items specific to them in their book and TK can use any magic items specific to them in their book. But they can't swap those items back and forth. ie; liche priest with black periapt.

Please to fix
While I personally wholeheartedly agree with this statement, there is still a significant debate on the various forums regarding this subject. Having the option to exclude army book magic items or not seems to me to be the best solution so that those going to say Adepticon can build a list to suit the rules and those playing in a meta that supports the use of army book magic items in a legions list can continue to use the army builder product.

The army builder team supporting Warhammer Fantasy has always seemed to me to be above meddling in discussions not yet decided when it comes to rules disputes, and I admired that about the team. I would hope they would remain so, and maintain a neutral stance with regard to these discussions.
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Caledor
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Old November 11th, 2014, 11:35 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by archamedius View Post
While I personally wholeheartedly agree with this statement, there is still a significant debate on the various forums regarding this subject. Having the option to exclude army book magic items or not seems to me to be the best solution so that those going to say Adepticon can build a list to suit the rules and those playing in a meta that supports the use of army book magic items in a legions list can continue to use the army builder product.

The army builder team supporting Warhammer Fantasy has always seemed to me to be above meddling in discussions not yet decided when it comes to rules disputes, and I admired that about the team. I would hope they would remain so, and maintain a neutral stance with regard to these discussions.
I'll discuss the matter with Ed Steiner as I review the Undead Legion and tell you the outcome. Thanks for all your precious inputs anyway.

EDIT: Like archamedius said, Army Builder should maintain a neutral stance. In 2.85 a ruleset will be added to either allow or forbid these magic items for End of Times armies.

As a side note, there are a lot of other disputes regarding undead legions, mostly about unusual wizards and usage of the undeath lore, and i'd like to hear your opinion about them.

Those that come to mind are: Kairos, Teclis, Kroak, Loremaster of Hoeth, Doomfire Warlocks, Sisters of the Thorn, Pink Horrors of Tzeentch, Dragon Mage of Caledor, Alarielle, Morathi and ALL character with one or more Loremaster rule (except Mazdamundi, for obvious reasons).
ATM this is the situation for them:
  • Loremasters are allowed to choose either the lore they have the rule for, or generate the spell from undeath as normal, but can not choose both. Count Mannfred is the exception, cause being a loremaster for multiple lores, can choose undeath in addition to his usual 2 lores.
  • Pink Horrors can choose either Tzeentch or Undeath.
  • Alarielle and Morathi can add undeath spells to the mix (even though Alarielle with undeath is quite the abomination, must say).
  • Kairos, Teclis, Kroak, the Sisters, the Warlocks and the Loremaster of Hoeth don't get the Lore of Undeath at all. The reason for them is that they never generate spells, as their magical knowledge is strictly defined by their special rules.
  • Dragon Mage also doesn't get it but he's more tricky. I choose to leave him out 'cause even though he generates as normal, he is forced to take at least one Fire spell due to his Warrior Mage rule. And no one is allowed to take multiple lores unless explicitly allowed to. Also, in AB there is no easy way to force selection of the lore of fire should the opt for the lore of undeath, since this is what should happen.
Please tell me what you guys think.

Last edited by Caledor; November 11th, 2014 at 03:15 PM.
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archamedius
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Old November 12th, 2014, 06:34 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Caledor View Post
I'll discuss the matter with Ed Steiner as I review the Undead Legion and tell you the outcome. Thanks for all your precious inputs anyway.

EDIT: Like archamedius said, Army Builder should maintain a neutral stance. In 2.85 a ruleset will be added to either allow or forbid these magic items for End of Times armies.
Thank you! With Army Builder's flexible framework there is no reason both sides cannot be accommodated while discussion continues.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Caledor View Post
As a side note, there are a lot of other disputes regarding undead legions, mostly about unusual wizards and usage of the undeath lore, and i'd like to hear your opinion about them.

Those that come to mind are: Kairos, Teclis, Kroak, Loremaster of Hoeth, Doomfire Warlocks, Sisters of the Thorn, Pink Horrors of Tzeentch, Dragon Mage of Caledor, Alarielle, Morathi and ALL character with one or more Loremaster rule (except Mazdamundi, for obvious reasons).
ATM this is the situation for them:
  • Loremasters are allowed to choose either the lore they have the rule for, or generate the spell from undeath as normal, but can not choose both. Count Mannfred is the exception, cause being a loremaster for multiple lores, can choose undeath in addition to his usual 2 lores.
  • Pink Horrors can choose either Tzeentch or Undeath.
  • Alarielle and Morathi can add undeath spells to the mix (even though Alarielle with undeath is quite the abomination, must say).
  • Kairos, Teclis, Kroak, the Sisters, the Warlocks and the Loremaster of Hoeth don't get the Lore of Undeath at all. The reason for them is that they never generate spells, as their magical knowledge is strictly defined by their special rules.
  • Dragon Mage also doesn't get it but he's more tricky. I choose to leave him out 'cause even though he generates as normal, he is forced to take at least one Fire spell due to his Warrior Mage rule. And no one is allowed to take multiple lores unless explicitly allowed to. Also, in AB there is no easy way to force selection of the lore of fire should the opt for the lore of undeath, since this is what should happen.
Please tell me what you guys think.
For what it's worth, I believe you are spot on with your analysis. Wizards who's spells are pre selected either through loremaster or other special rules (warlocks and Sister's of Thorn for example) should not get access to lore of Undeath. I also agree the Dragon Mage is forced to use lore of fire because of the Warrior Mage rule. So I am in agreement with all those adjustments.

Thank you for being open minded to discussion and maintaining neutrality in the discussion.
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Caledor
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Old November 12th, 2014, 07:59 AM
You're welcome, and thank you for your reply. Mind though that Loremasters may opt for Undeath in place of the Lore they have the Loremaster rule for as things stand now, with Count Mannfred being the exception as he gets Undeath in addition to his 2 lores. Basically they can either generate normally from Undeath and ignore Loremaster, or apply it. Seeing how you think that loremasters shouldn't get undeath, did you miss this passage?
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