Conditional Bootstrap

[Darq]

Ok so I can conditionally add a custom tag - say "tagOOfBE" depending on a user selection.
Then I bootstrap all possible Racial edges to the race and I can make the edge "Big Eyes" only show up if tag "tafOOFBE" is attached to the race?

[zarlor]

If I'm reading him right, I think that's the gist of it. I may give it a try with a few files if I have time tomorrow and see what I can do there/ A lot of work for those of us making the files, but it should make some things a little cleaner on the player side of things. I would only note that if I'm reading this right there is an assumption only that the selections here are Unique, so it should work fine for something like a unique Edge that allows the selection of, say, a skill. But for something like a Mutation or Coup in the Deadlands/Hell On Earth settings I get the feeling that some extra tweaking would need to be done... maybe, I'd have to try it, I think.

[Mathias]

Actually, there's an assumption that the selections are "Add Once". If they're unique, and they're conditionally bootstrapped, then the user can't add a copy through normal means - it's already on the character, so they can't add another, even though the copy that's already on the character is non-live.

[Darq]

Originally Posted by zarlor

If I'm reading him right, I think that's the gist of it. I may give it a try with a few files if I have time tomorrow and see what I can do there/ A lot of work for those of us making the files, but it should make some things a little cleaner on the player side of things. I would only note that if I'm reading this right there is an assumption only that the selections here are Unique, so it should work fine for something like a unique Edge that allows the selection of, say, a skill. But for something like a Mutation or Coup in the Deadlands/Hell On Earth settings I get the feeling that some extra tweaking would need to be done... maybe, I'd have to try it, I think.

If you wouldn't mind sharing some examples if / when you figure this out it would be appreciated. I'm still trying to keep my head above water here, but I keep heading toward the deep end.

[zarlor]

Originally Posted by Darq

If you wouldn't mind sharing some examples if / when you figure this out it would be appreciated. I'm still trying to keep my head above water here, but I keep heading toward the deep end.

I know the feeling all too well! I'll definitely add any examples I can work out to the Common Code Examples thread here, for sure.

And thanks Mathias for the assist, as always. I still say it would help to have a more direct method, but I definitely appreciate that you've given us a few more options than what we've already been trying to work with.

[Darq]

Hi Zarlor - Did you figure this thing out? I am getting to the end of my gross data entry and want to start figuring out the special cases. The first I will try is there is a race (Horc) who gets to pick either the edge Slimy or the edge Sticky.

[zarlor]

I haven't had a chance to sit down with Hero Lab to work on anything in a few weeks. So I can't say I worked on any of this at all. Sorry.

[Darq]

No Worries Thanks for the reply!

[zarlor]

Originally Posted by Mathias

Actually, look at what I've talked about for testing tags and fields - based on the selection list you're offering to the user, can you use a script to assign a specific tag or set a specific field value depending on which selection was chosen? Then, you bootstrap all of those items, and on each one, add a condition looking for the correct field value or tag.

As I said, I don't like that route, but it's an option.

Actually all you said was:

Here's the way I would implement these: First, add a script that increases the count of the appropriate category by 1, or however many free things you're getting. Then, you let the user add their choice of abilities. Then, you add an eval rule to the ability that is granting the free selection that will complain until the user adds something that qualifies. (Actually, usually the eval rule can do double duty - it increases the count of abilities available and tests that the correct thing has been added).

So you didn't like that route, but that's how you would do it? But if you don't like that route then is it still a good thing for us to request a method whereby we could, within the context of a script, get some kind of command for, I don't know, #bootstrap.thing, if you will? I know a huge amount of developer time there is focused on Realm Works, but maybe once that gets released and the initial hump of fixes/features for it are out the door maybe that could be something you guys could look into for us. It just seems to make more sense to many of us, I think, rather than just bootstrapping something and then conditionally blocking it from showing.

Oh, and Darq, I'm hoping to work through a bit more of this during this week since it may also be helpful on trying to update my Necropolis file to Necropolis 2350.

[Mathias]

Originally Posted by zarlor

But if you don't like that route then is it still a good thing for us to request a method whereby we could, within the context of a script, get some kind of command for, I don't know, #bootstrap.thing, if you will? I know a huge amount of developer time there is focused on Realm Works, but maybe once that gets released and the initial hump of fixes/features for it are out the door maybe that could be something you guys could look into for us. It just seems to make more sense to many of us, I think, rather than just bootstrapping something and then conditionally blocking it from showing.

There is no way that a script can ever be used to bootstrap something. Hero Lab must generate a list of all scripts that exist before the phase & priority sequence can be started, so something that runs its own scripts must already be present before the phase & priority sequence starts.

What bootstrap conditions do is to put the item in place, and then make it non-live, meaning that none of its scripts are run after it goes non-live - those scripts still exist in the list of scripts to run, but they're flagged as non-live.

I consider bootstrap conditions a major hassle and headache - the fact that Test Now! doesn't handle them properly makes them time-consuming to test once one has been created, and I find them complicated to set up - that's why I don't recommend using them too widely. The other major problem with them is that they're hard to extend if a new book adds new options for them, because you have to edit the existing item to add new bootstraps.