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ReliantLion
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Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 7

Old February 10th, 2018, 10:17 PM
Hi, got a small issue. When I equip a Headband of Vast Intelligence +4, HL tells me that I need to add two free spells to my Wizard's spellbook. I asked my GM about this, and he says that it should not do that.

To my knowledge, there is no mechanic in the game that just *poof* adds spells to a spellbook in this way. Are we missing something or is this perhaps a bug?
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Toblakai
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Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 271

Old February 10th, 2018, 11:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ReliantLion View Post
Hi, got a small issue. When I equip a Headband of Vast Intelligence +4, HL tells me that I need to add two free spells to my Wizard's spellbook. I asked my GM about this, and he says that it should not do that.

To my knowledge, there is no mechanic in the game that just *poof* adds spells to a spellbook in this way. Are we missing something or is this perhaps a bug?
This is a topic where people fall on both sides. The designers of Pathfinder wanted to not have to track when stats got changed so they made stat changes retroactive, so extra skill points when int or con goes up.

The wording of the free spells:

A wizard begins play with a spellbook containing all
0-level wizard spells plus three 1st-level
spells of his choice. The wizard also selects a number
of additional 1st-level spells equal to his Intelligence
modifier to add to the spellbook

This does not indicate that the free spells are received at first level only. And honestly if your DM is quibbling about 2 free first level spells, it probably not worth the fight, it's 20-30gp worth of free stuff when your equipping a 16000gp item, should be chump change for your character.
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ReliantLion
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Old February 10th, 2018, 11:56 PM
Sounds fair either way. Was just more concerned it might be a bug than anything. I only brought it up to my GM because it makes little sense in a meta-physics sense that your spellbook would have additional spells put in it. Although, it could be the wizard had an epiphany or something and wrote it down after studying his spellbook the next day. (A small, level 1, epiphany)

Sometimes I think Paizo is intentionally vague on such things.
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Zaknaefin
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Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: New York
Posts: 67

Old February 12th, 2018, 01:34 AM
When I have characters that have Headbands that add Int, I just do an adjustment to reduce the additional languages and additional spells granted down to zero. I do not think those two items are intended to be increased, just the associated skills.

Currently playing: Pathfinder Eberron, Pathfinder Homebrew, Pathfinder Wrath of the Righteous AP, Pathfinder Rise of the Runelords AP
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Minous
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Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 510

Old February 12th, 2018, 04:48 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zaknaefin View Post
When I have characters that have Headbands that add Int, I just do an adjustment to reduce the additional languages and additional spells granted down to zero. I do not think those two items are intended to be increased, just the associated skills.
Actually languages and spells are retroactive, Just like if you have your INT at an odd number and bump it with the stat bonuses at 4/8/12 ect.
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Zaknaefin
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Old February 12th, 2018, 04:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Minous View Post
Actually languages and spells are retroactive, Just like if you have your INT at an odd number and bump it with the stat bonuses at 4/8/12 ect.
If its a permanent increase like a stat bump at 4th, 8th, etc. level or an inherent bonus from a magical book. I do not think a temporary (even if it lasts more than 24 hours) increase does.

Currently playing: Pathfinder Eberron, Pathfinder Homebrew, Pathfinder Wrath of the Righteous AP, Pathfinder Rise of the Runelords AP
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Arjon Smithson
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Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 52

Old February 12th, 2018, 07:10 PM
I raised this issue as a bug report last year, and was told that currently HL has no way of identifying temporary but long term raises in stats against permanent raising of a stat, and there was no timetable for a possible fix. However they can record it for a spell with short duration. The issue is complicated by players that insist that the headband is never taken off, so as such should be regarded as permanent. A messy situation, as I couldn't see me wearing a headband continuously, but I haven't taken off the two rings I wear for the last 32 years. As a GM, my attitude is will my game be totally unbalanced if I let the player have the extra spells, and my answer is 'no'.
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Minous
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Old February 12th, 2018, 07:25 PM
There is a ruling somewhere, but stat boosting items such as headbands are considered temporary for the first 24 hours but after that are permanent. They have also ruled that taking items off to bathe and or sleep do not count as "removing" it.
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Azhrei
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Old February 13th, 2018, 08:12 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Minous View Post
There is a ruling somewhere, but stat boosting items such as headbands are considered temporary for the first 24 hours but after that are permanent. They have also ruled that taking items off to bathe and or sleep do not count as "removing" it.
+1

I think that was a Skip Williams Sage Advice column from waaaaay back!

My group plays that it takes 24 hours for the boost to become "permanent", i.e. for the item to consider you it's "owner". Thereafter, you can have it off for as long as 8 hours without disrupting its function. (Basically, this is the opposite period.) Players can't abuse it by passing it around between them.
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LazarX
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Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Jersey City
Posts: 254

Old February 16th, 2018, 12:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Azhrei View Post
+1

I think that was a Skip Williams Sage Advice column from waaaaay back!

My group plays that it takes 24 hours for the boost to become "permanent", i.e. for the item to consider you it's "owner". Thereafter, you can have it off for as long as 8 hours without disrupting its function. (Basically, this is the opposite period.) Players can't abuse it by passing it around between them.
It was also a Paizo ruling as well as this question is one of those that keeps coming up as no one ever checks the boards for past answers.
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