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Thrawn21
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Join Date: Jun 2015
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Old April 25th, 2016, 01:29 AM
Hello,

I noticed it is not possible to add commlink modules (those giving sleaze or attack attribute) to an RCC. You can only add the cyberdeck modules.

Now the question, is that really forbidden by the rules or is HL just seeing RCC as Cyberdecks, which of cause have no need for an module with hacking attributes.
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BrotherPrætus
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Old April 25th, 2016, 12:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thrawn21 View Post
Hello,

I noticed it is not possible to add commlink modules (those giving sleaze or attack attribute) to an RCC. You can only add the cyberdeck modules.

Now the question, is that really forbidden by the rules or is HL just seeing RCC as Cyberdecks, which of cause have no need for an module with hacking attributes.
Given that RCCs and 'decks share some of the same functionalities, the ability of an RCC to accept 'deck mods makes sense. However, a commlink is a different beast, entirely, and it makes sense that the 'link modules are not considered compatible. Given how ubiquitous 'links are, a Rigger who wants to hack without a 'deck would be better off just modding their 'link and leaving the RCC to its normal tasks of slaving drones and such.

That, and I think there was an official response on the matter which warranted the way it works in Hero Labs.
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Thrawn21
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Old April 25th, 2016, 11:04 PM
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Originally Posted by BrotherPrætus View Post
Given that RCCs and 'decks share some of the same functionalities, the ability of an RCC to accept 'deck mods makes sense. However, a commlink is a different beast, entirely, and it makes sense that the 'link modules are not considered compatible. Given how ubiquitous 'links are, a Rigger who wants to hack without a 'deck would be better off just modding their 'link and leaving the RCC to its normal tasks of slaving drones and such.

That, and I think there was an official response on the matter which warranted the way it works in Hero Labs.
So Decking and Rigging at the same time is impossible then, as you would have to constantly switch devices, which would make you loose all existing marks.
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Kiirnodel
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Old April 26th, 2016, 03:54 AM
When you say "commlink modules" do you mean the dongles?
If so, then yes, the general consensus is that only Commlinks can use them.

And you can Deck and Rig at the same time, you'll just have some sort of limitation: Either you won't be able to Deck as well because you'll be missing Attack/Sleaze of meaningful value (most you could get is by adding one of them to the device). OR you won't be able to Rig with your RCC and just be using your Cyberdeck. Note that this would only limit your ability to share autosofts and have Noise cancellation, if you are rigging a single device at a time, this isn't as huge a hit as people might expect.
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ich.pdf
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Old April 26th, 2016, 04:13 AM
I don't have the books with me and because it is not herolab related, it actually does not belong her, but I am just thinking right now:

Does it say anywhere that a master cannot be a slave himself? If not, why should an RCC not be a slave of a cyberdeck/commlink? I see, that both devices are intended to have a matrix connection, but it says nowhere that this connection got to be an immediate one (I think).

Well, at the first glance it looks like a nifty workaround, on the second it's maybe just contra rules and only viable as a house rule. :-D
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Polecat
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Old April 27th, 2016, 09:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thrawn21 View Post
So Decking and Rigging at the same time is impossible then, as you would have to constantly switch devices, which would make you loose all existing marks.
Nah, the marks are on a device.

If you're sitting there with a rig to your left and a cyber deck to your right and you get 2 marks with your cyberdeck, that cyberdeck now has 2 marks on that target. If you go over to your Rig, the Rig still has 0 marks. But if you then spend your next action back on your Cyberdeck, it will still have the 2 marks on it (assuming of course they have not gotten any off). To shake the marks on an untended cyberdeck they still need to beat its firewall.

You just do not apply your willpower to the defense roll.

So, if your cyberdeck or com has a nice firewall you might be able to pop over to your rig for an action or two and its natural defenses might hold out on their own.

But if you are asking if you can share marks or a network between a cyberdeck and an RCC, the answer is no. Both are "Master Control" devices and thus cannot be slaved to the same network. Each one generates its own network.
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ich.pdf
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Old April 28th, 2016, 12:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Polecat View Post
Nah, the marks are on a device.

(...)

But if you are asking if you can share marks or a network between a cyberdeck and an RCC, the answer is no. Both are "Master Control" devices and thus cannot be slaved to the same network. Each one generates its own network.
Well, is there a evidence for that? Don't get me wrong, I do think this is a possible and valid interpretation of the rule, but I am asking if it's the only one. I can't remember reading that a device capable of being master cannot be slaved.

Also, I am pretty sure that marks are specific for a persona. This could as well mean they are also specific for the device you are using to connect to the matrix, but that is stated nowhere. IMO, it could as well be that you are using the same persona, whether you are connectec via commlink, cyberdeck, RCC or (as a rigger) through a vehicle you are jacked in.

From your interpretation of the rules, it would definitly be impossible to ultimately hack and take over a drone to connect it to your RCC network - without shutting it down and do the hardware test to take control.

This situation did not occur in my group so far, so I never had to find the final answer, and I might handle it the way you do it - but is it clear?

(Again, actually wrong forum for that kind of question, but... )
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Thrawn21
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Old April 28th, 2016, 07:52 AM
If I recall the rules correctly, you cannot slave a comlink (a master device) or and RRC (a master device too) to a cyberdeck.
Marks on a device are linked to your persona, not the device you are using. And if you logout of the matrix to switch your persona to another device, all marks you have get erased.
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ich.pdf
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Old April 28th, 2016, 08:34 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thrawn21 View Post
Marks on a device are linked to your persona, not the device you are using. And if you logout of the matrix to switch your persona to another device, all marks you have get erased.
Agree

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thrawn21 View Post
If I recall the rules correctly, you cannot slave a comlink (a master device) or and RRC (a master device too) to a cyberdeck.
Disagree.

I rolled intuition + Computer ( obessive... yes ) on my German Shadowrun Core Rule Book .pdf. I searched for "Slave" and nowhere is said, that a commlink can't be a slave. It says on p. 230 that only devices can be slaves, only commlinks and decks can be masters (I think they are just not mentioning RCCs because they are introduced in another chapter) and technomancers can neither be masters nor slaves (the latter would actually be redundant, if a master could never be a slave, anyway).

The statement about technomancers is repeated in the technomancer section. They can neither be slaves nor masters, p. 249.

Finally, on p. 265 in the rigger section, it is clarified that an RCC can be slave to a host. That is how security spiders use their RCCs. More than that, it is sufficient for them to have drones be slaves of the host, too, and still use the RCC. It is not saying something about using autosofts together with drones which are co-slaves to the same master but I think, one can assume that this is possible.

So an RCC can definitely be a slave. The question is: Is it only possible in a WAN with a Host as a master?

PS: Unfortunately page references from German Core Rule Book are pointless for English users. I will try to identify the relevant sections:
p. 230 = titled "PANs and WANs", next section is about Grids, there are two little boxes with examples. Tesseract appears in one and Pistons and dev/grrl in the other one
p. 249 = the section about the living persona of technomancers
p. 265 = titled "PANs and WANs for rigger", on the same page is a table with the different RCCs
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mMerlin
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Old April 28th, 2016, 08:47 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thrawn21 View Post
If I recall the rules correctly, you cannot slave a comlink (a master device) or and RRC (a master device too) to a cyberdeck.
Marks on a device are linked to your persona, not the device you are using. And if you logout of the matrix to switch your persona to another device, all marks you have get erased.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SR5p233
Only devices can be slaves, masters, or part of a PAN.
A Commlink, Deck, or RCC are all devices, so can be master or slave.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SR5p268
security spider. They slave their RCC to the building’s host and connect to the entire security system, including all of its slaved drones. When you’re inside a host, your effective “physical distance” to drones slaved to that host becomes zero.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SR5p235 PERSONA
When a person uses a device to connect to the Matrix, the device’s icon is subsumed by the persona’s icon, so it’s basically gone from the Matrix until the persona jacks out. You can only run one persona at a time; switching requires you to reboot both the device you’re currently on and the device to which you want to shift your persona.
Takes more than just logging out to switch, but yes all marks are lost.
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