2020-02-26 Update: Build 4661D49

[nightpanda2810]

Originally Posted by rob

Your request is a bit worrisome, since either we've completely overlooked an important use-case scenario or there's some confusion with how things are assumed to be used. Whichever way it is, we need to make some changes.

So...

The assumption is that "global" cast members are primarily going to be individual NPCs that the party runs into on a recurring basis. For example, the BBEG, his lieutenants, the people that run the world (e.g. nobles), the local merchants (if you opt to spec them all out), etc. Each of those is assumed to a "unique" individual.

There are also generic townsfolk that you might want to prepare for re-use, such as bar patrons, beggars, guards, bandits, and the like. Those would NOT be unique, but our assumption is that those are much less frequent than the unique NPCs.

Cast members that only appear within a single scene are assumed to be created solely within the context of the appropriate script - as "local" NPCs. They're only used once, so they don't need to clutter up the reusable "global" pool.

Now that I've hopefully clarified what our assumptions were, please explain how you're actually striving to use CT. Either we need to better explain the above model or we need to better understand what you're doing so we can make appropriate changes to accommodate the unexpected usage pattern. Or both.

Thanks!

Thanks for the response Rob!

After reading your explanation of your vision, it makes WAY more sense now.

Cast Members tab is meant for recurring NPCs, while each individual Scene is meant for planned encounters that won't be happening again. Then the parties friendly wizard ally would be a cast member, but the group of orcs he just saved the PCs from (or vice versa) would just be in the scene.

You would start a scene, then import the cast member into it. Are things like used abilities/HP supposed to save when a scene is ended? It didn't in my testing right now.

Am I understanding this right? If so, I actually like it and will likely use it this way instead of how I envisioned it.

All that said, I do think a checkbox to untick unique when adding to the Cast Members, and the hostility options to be a good idea, rather than having to edit each one after you add them.

[Jamz]

Ahh, well see ya. I was adding everyone to the Cast members, like goblins, ghouls, etc. I could have just added those to the scene script instead.

So I only need to add named characters (or maybe a single NPC that I had to customize) to the cast of characters.

Is there a reason to force us to use scenes? FWIW, say you have an impromptu scene, a PC punches the man in the bar and you didn't expect it. You already have the PC's on stage, it would be nice if we ad a + button right on the stage page to add a generic PC and start tactical mode? Or am I missing something?

[rob]

Originally Posted by dacoobob

Really? I'm very curious why you would assume that.

Say the PCs are walking down the street in a town-- who are they more likely to bump into: the Mayor, or a common merchant or beggar? Or, say the party is delving into an evil necromancer's dungeon-- who will they likely spend more time fighting: the Necromancer himself, or his hordes of undead minions?

If you're prepping an encounter with a goblin raiding party, would you really spec out unique statblocks for every individual goblin? I certainly wouldn't... I'd make most of them generic "goblin warriors" and call it good. The leader of the band might be more powerful-- and he might even have a name and a backstory-- but even then he probably wouldn't need unique stats, just a generic "goblin lieutenant" statblock. Surely those kind of encounters are more common than ones involving unique monsters or NPCs, no?

When walking down the street, the party is most likely to randomly bump into a commoner of some sort. How many different generic commoners do you plan on specing out in advance? Probably a handful is my guess. Over the life of a campaign, that number will be far exceeded by all the unique and recurring NPCs that you put together.

If you are preparing an encounter, you can add all those generic goblins and orcs directly into the scene script. You pull the goblin from the Vault and set the quantity to 6 (or whatever). The goblin leader might be special and have his own entry in the script.

Let's say the goblin leader is a recurring foe that the PCs will have to deal with. So he gets created as a global cast member outside the scene and merely linked to it. Then you can link him to multiple scripts where he appears. Each of those scripts would also directly include his disposable goblin minions (instead of being linked).

If you decided that you want all your goblin minions to be "special", you could also do that. You create a single "goblin minion" as a global cast member and customize it as desired. Then you link that one minion to each script where you want it to appear and set its quantity to the number appearing. Voila! You now have a scene with a custom goblin leader and his custom goblin minions. All for the low, low price of creating each of them a single time and then re-using them across multiple scenes.

I hope those examples make more sense now!

[rob]

Originally Posted by nightpanda2810

Cast Members tab is meant for recurring NPCs, while each individual Scene is meant for planned encounters that won't be happening again. Then the parties friendly wizard ally would be a cast member, but the group of orcs he just saved the PCs from (or vice versa) would just be in the scene.

Exactly!

Originally Posted by nightpanda2810

You would start a scene, then import the cast member into it. Are things like used abilities/HP supposed to save when a scene is ended? It didn't in my testing right now.

Yes and no. I say that because there's a lot of functionality already in place under that covers that we still need to surface within the interface.

The backend has the concept of persistence, which controls whether a character's actions on stage during a scene are folded back into the underlying character. All PCs are inherently persistent, since what happens to the party "sticks". All NPCs created directly within a script are inherently NON-persistent, since the assumption is that (a) saving the effects serves no useful purpose and (b) you probably have plenty of scripts that you want to re-use (e.g. random encounters).

Then there are the global cast members. Depending on the GM and the nature the NPC, you may or may not want the effects of a scene to be persistent on a given NPC. So that's something that is customizable on an individual NPC within the backend, but it's not something yet available to control in the UI. For now, all NPCs behave a non-persistent, but that control will be exposed reasonably soon.

Originally Posted by nightpanda2810

All that said, I do think a checkbox to untick unique when adding to the Cast Members, and the hostility options to be a good idea, rather than having to edit each one after you add them.

Yep. That would be nice. I've added it to the punch list. Or what I have come to refer to as my "Book of Infinite Tasks".

[rob]

Originally Posted by Jamz

Is there a reason to force us to use scenes? FWIW, say you have an impromptu scene, a PC punches the man in the bar and you didn't expect it. You already have the PC's on stage, it would be nice if we ad a + button right on the stage page to add a generic PC and start tactical mode? Or am I missing something?

As I mentioned in a post above, there's a lot of stuff already supported in the backend that we haven't yet exposed in the UI. This is one of those many items. We're getting stuff added to the UI on a steady basis, so look for that ability to make its appearance in the weeks ahead.

[Jamz]

Originally Posted by rob

As I mentioned in a post above, there's a lot of stuff already supported in the backend that we haven't yet exposed in the UI. This is one of those many items. We're getting stuff added to the UI on a steady basis, so look for that ability to make its appearance in the weeks ahead.

Cool cool. last week had some major changes that I'm loving, like the new NPC options. Building that custom NPC will be SO much easier now, thanks for that BTW!

I was going to ask about PC's (i'm still sad I can't view my players sheets) but I saw the text in HLO that it's coming soon, so, woot!

[nightpanda2810]

Originally Posted by rob

Yep. That would be nice. I've added it to the punch list. Or what I have come to refer to as my "Book of Infinite Tasks".

Everyone has one of those