Mutants and Masterminds 3rd Edition / DC Adventures

[Nigel Fogg The Wayfarer]

Originally Posted by flyingcircus

Well I wish M&M 3E would just drop the old boring levels system and just go straight points system, far simpler, I have always felt the dumb d20 levels system just never fit a supers style campaign. I mean, hell what level can you put on Superman or Darkseid? Just never made sense anyhow, just use straight points like the old DC Heroes system and leave it at that, maybe even drop the d20 system altogether and go with 2d10 (still gives a range of 2-20).

Admitting up front that I know nothing about what M&M 3E will or won't be doing.

That said, I like how Power Level and Power Points work in conjunction. You can have two NPC's built on, say, 165 points. For the purposes of this example let's pretend Arrays don't exist and powers have to be bought individually, no Alts for a single PP.

The NPC at PL 11 could have close to a dozen powers at Rank 11 that have effects across the continent (maybe a little exaggeration there).

The NPC at PL 5 on the other hand will be able to have over two dozen powers to select from with points left over for other Traits. They just aren't going to be affecting anything beyond, say, a football stadium's distance from him.

Thus, two fellows with the same point total but very different in concept and how they interact with the world.

Anyway, that's my two cent's worth. M&M 3E is many months away so no sense worrying about it now.

As always, keep up the good work,
Nigel Fogg, aka The Wayfarer

[Colen]

I agree with Nigel Fogg. Power levels are necessary to stop imbalances, like one character in a group taking a single power that can destroy the entire earth, and another character taking 10 less powerful powers.

Are both of those players really going to have fun in that game? Either the powerful guy is going to one shot the supervillain, or twiddle his thumbs all adventure as the more well-rounded character does all the actual work.

If you don't like that, just play without power level limits. Hero Lab even supports that!

[RedBeardSean]

I actually like the PL limits- giving out x.p. without raising the level limit forces the characters to be a bit more well-rounded. No character should be a single-power cardboard cut-out (even if that power is the Armeggedon Style: Papercut of the Apocalypse-jutsu).

[Nigel Fogg The Wayfarer]

Originally Posted by RedBeardSean

I actually like the PL limits- giving out x.p. without raising the level limit forces the characters to be a bit more well-rounded. No character should be a single-power cardboard cut-out (even if that power is the Armeggedon Style: Papercut of the Apocalypse-jutsu).

I refer to them as cookie-cutter characters but it's the same thing.

My current group has just decided that they have no option but to "become more well-rounded" with the recent point awards. Whereas my character started out well rounded, and thus lower ranks, but is now on the path to increased "raw" power. ;-)

Different strokes for different folks.

[Colen]

There's an interview with Steve Kenson here, which should hopefully reassure everyone that M&M3 isn't turning into D&D4.

[RedBeardSean]

Originally Posted by Colen

There's an interview with Steve Kenson here, which should hopefully reassure everyone that M&M3 isn't turning into D&D4.

Steve is, as always, teh awesome.

[EberronKnight]

Currently we have three guys that have bought Herolab at our table for Pathfinder and another guy ready to buy Herolab. I've always loved Superheroes since I was a kid but D&D was the only roleplaying game in town back then.

I remember when M&M first came about, I bought a few of their books but no one I knew wanted to do a superhero campaign. The love remained deep inside and I would check out the M&M site from time to time. Now I was thinking of buying the M&M add-on for HL, just to have fun with it. After checking out the M&M site I heard that a 3rd edition is coming and a DC version!

So here I am looking at the forum for any news about it... wham! So should I wait for the 3rd edition M&M to make it to Herolab as a add-on correct? Or do I buy both the current M&M add-on with the 3rd ed M&M add on?

I can wait but if I need to have the current version, I may get it now to mess with (just for fun on the side).

Exciting times if the DC license works out for Herolab but if not, as it was mentioned earlier in the thread, we could just do that on our own with DC characters.

As my current DM says, "Did I tell you guys how awesome Herolab is?" A million times over.

EK

[Nigel Fogg The Wayfarer]

Originally Posted by EberronKnight

Currently we have three guys that have bought Herolab at our table for Pathfinder and another guy ready to buy Herolab. I've always loved Superheroes since I was a kid but D&D was the only roleplaying game in town back then.

I remember when M&M first came about, I bought a few of their books but no one I knew wanted to do a superhero campaign. The love remained deep inside and I would check out the M&M site from time to time. Now I was thinking of buying the M&M add-on for HL, just to have fun with it. After checking out the M&M site I heard that a 3rd edition is coming and a DC version!

So here I am looking at the forum for any news about it... wham! So should I wait for the 3rd edition M&M to make it to Herolab as a add-on correct? Or do I buy both the current M&M add-on with the 3rd ed M&M add on?

I can wait but if I need to have the current version, I may get it now to mess with (just for fun on the side).

Exciting times if the DC license works out for Herolab but if not, as it was mentioned earlier in the thread, we could just do that on our own with DC characters.

As my current DM says, "Did I tell you guys how awesome Herolab is?" A million times over.

EK

Hello and welcome EK

My group tried & hated D&D 4.0 (but we love the SAGA edition of Star Wars which has all the playing goodness that D&D 4.0 watered-down/stripped out) and have stuck with D&D. 3.5 which HL supports very well indeed. We haven't tried Pathfinder, which we call D&D 3.75, yet but may someday.

Anyway, my $0.02 worth is that because M&M 3rd Ed. is months away you should get the current version and experience the wonders of letting the software handle the math & those pesky hidden bonuses/hindrances that you missed because they were buried deep in the rulebooks/errata.

Of course, this is just one man's opinion. Spend or don't spend your $$ as you choose.

.....but you'd be foolish not to get the M&M module.

Nigel Fogg, aka The Wayfarer

[Shadowchaser]

Originally Posted by EberronKnight

Currently we have three guys that have bought Herolab at our table for Pathfinder and another guy ready to buy Herolab. I've always loved Superheroes since I was a kid but D&D was the only roleplaying game in town back then.

I remember when M&M first came about, I bought a few of their books but no one I knew wanted to do a superhero campaign. The love remained deep inside and I would check out the M&M site from time to time. Now I was thinking of buying the M&M add-on for HL, just to have fun with it. After checking out the M&M site I heard that a 3rd edition is coming and a DC version!

So here I am looking at the forum for any news about it... wham! So should I wait for the 3rd edition M&M to make it to Herolab as a add-on correct? Or do I buy both the current M&M add-on with the 3rd ed M&M add on?

I can wait but if I need to have the current version, I may get it now to mess with (just for fun on the side).

Exciting times if the DC license works out for Herolab but if not, as it was mentioned earlier in the thread, we could just do that on our own with DC characters.

As my current DM says, "Did I tell you guys how awesome Herolab is?" A million times over.

EK

I'd go for it, if you plan to run M&M any time soon. After all, it's only 20 bucks for the license, and the M&M 3E will just be another 20 bucks. We're not sure when the 3E update will be released on Hero Lab either. They're HOPING it'll release in time for it to be used with the DC Adventures books, but it might not come out then. I don't know if that's more of a licensing issue or an issue of getting ready in time, but I got the impression they are already hard at work on it.

In either case, one of the ideas floating around (that I REALLY LOVE) is that they might try and let you load characters from 2E into the 3E ruleset to do 'automatic' conversions. Colen said it might not be possible, but they were looking into it. If that's the case, there's SO MANY characters I've made in 2E that it would save me literally DAYS of work converting 'em myself.

Anyway, either decision you make, I must agree. Hero Lab (and the people who make it) are flat-out awesome.

Thanks guys!

[Colen]

M&M2 and M&M3 are totally separate game systems, purchased separately within Hero Lab. Buying the M&M3 data package (when it releases) won't require that you already own M&M2, but it'll only let you create M&M3 characters. If you want to create both M&M2 and M&M3 characters, you'll need to buy both data packages.

Hope this helps!