Why is the database machine bound?

[EightBitz]

Originally Posted by mantrasong

[snip] I dislike the idea that I can't just make automatic copies of my database, like I do every other file, in a standard "backup changed files on my hard drive" backup system. While I am no database expert, it seems to me that a bit-by-bit binary backup, that I would restore post computer failure, ought to work regardless of hardware changes. If that isn't the case, it seems to be because it is designed in, and I'd like the reason why. At the end of the day, that's something I'd need to hear from a Lone Wolf staff, not speculation.

Nope. I've been managing backups for years. Even with professional, enterprise level backup software (the kind that costs more than most people make in a year), you can't just do a bit-by-bit backup of any database. You need specific backup agents for specific database types, and even versions.

Now, it would be nice to have a command line interface for the database export so it can be scripted and scheduled. You could put that in the feature request. Heck, maybe I will.

[mirtos]

I was thinking close to the same thing that EightBitz is saying. Since there is an export (and sync), I would like to see an auto-export/sync option. (Perhaps even based on time). I think ill put in the feature request.

[davidp]

Originally Posted by mantrasong

I dislike the idea that I can't just make automatic copies of my database, like I do every other file, in a standard "backup changed files on my hard drive" backup system. While I am no database expert, it seems to me that a bit-by-bit binary backup, that I would restore post computer failure, ought to work regardless of hardware changes. If that isn't the case, it seems to be because it is designed in, and I'd like the reason why. At the end of the day, that's something I'd need to hear from a Lone Wolf staff, not speculation.

As long as the bit-by-bit binary backup is performed while Realm Works is NOT running, it will be fine. You would be able to restore it without a problem. If the backup is done while Realm Works is running, expect corruption and/or crashes in Realm Works when that backup is restored.

[zarlor]

Originally Posted by davidp

As long as the bit-by-bit binary backup is performed while Realm Works is NOT running, it will be fine. You would be able to restore it without a problem. If the backup is done while Realm Works is running, expect corruption and/or crashes in Realm Works when that backup is restored.

David, I think the main part of the question he's been concerned with earlier in this thread is if you did a backup, while Realm Works was not running, that had to be restored to a different mobo/hardware, would there be an issue?

[davidp]

Originally Posted by zarlor

David, I think the main part of the question he's been concerned with earlier in this thread is if you did a backup, while Realm Works was not running, that had to be restored to a different mobo/hardware, would there be an issue?

A request to the cloud server to get an ID used to generate ID's offline would be required in this case. This request doesn't require a cloud subscription and is needed so that if you ever do decide to sync to the server, there won't be any problems with ID's colliding with anyone else's ID's. That is the only purpose and it is not intended as a DRM mechanism in any fashion.

[mantrasong]

Originally Posted by davidp

A request to the cloud server to get an ID used to generate ID's offline would be required in this case. This request doesn't require a cloud subscription and is needed so that if you ever do decide to sync to the server, there won't be any problems with ID's colliding with anyone else's ID's. That is the only purpose and it is not intended as a DRM mechanism in any fashion.

So, just to be clear, in my particular case, this is what would be needed:


*Backup the database to wherever, when Realm Works is closed.
*<failure occurs/restore is needed>
*Restore that same copy of the database to the new/repaired computer
*Connect online to generate a new ID

Correct?

[davidp]

Originally Posted by mantrasong

So, just to be clear, in my particular case, this is what would be needed:


*Backup the database to wherever, when Realm Works is closed.
*<failure occurs/restore is needed>
*Restore that same copy of the database to the new/repaired computer
*Connect online to generate a new ID

Correct?

Correct.

[mantrasong]

Awesome. Thanks David! And thanks again to zarlor/Lenny.

That is more or less the behavior I would expect, and not what the FAQ appears to say. I'm guessing that's intended to be the PR-speak for "don't do this", so I won't complain too much about it. That being said, I guess I need to go buy this now

Because I can't help but push my luck, what would happen if I did keep it on the network drive, and used two different computers to access it, as long as I'm only accessing the database from one computer at a time, presumably updating the ID as needed? (Again, all the usual caveats about how I know this is a bad idea, but I'm curious anyway)

[zarlor]

Originally Posted by mantrasong

Awesome. Thanks David! And thanks again to zarlor/Lenny.

You're welcome. Glad I could provide some useful info.

[rob]

First of all, a big THANK YOU to all of the techies here who have taken the time to accurately explain the complexities of what we've already done and why putting the database on a network drive for multi-user access would be a disaster trying to happen.

Now, to clarify the concerns about the database being tied to local hardware. If you have a database on ComputerA and back it up, you can take that backup to ComputerB and restore, with NO ILL EFFECTS. If you've already logged into your account on ComputerB before doing this, everything works immediately. If ComputerB is a brand new installation that has never talked to our server, the very first thing ComputerB will require you to do is login to our server. That way, it can automatically fixup the few details that reference ComputerA in the database to now reference ComputerB - something that's done implicitly if ComputerB has already connected to our server. Once that's done, you're off and running.

As for the technical details behind this, remember that we have to be able to let users create content on multiple computers INDEPENDENTLY and OFFLINE. And we have to do this in a way that GUARANTEES that all content created on ComputerA can NEVER have an id that conflicts with content created on ComputerB. This requires that we uniquely identify each computer and coordinate that identity with our server to guarantee uniqueness. Once that's done, all new ids generated on a given computer are safely ensured to satisfy those requirements.

We key on a variety of variables to uniquely identify a given computer. If those variables change, the computer will need to contact our server to get a new "identity" value before new content can be created. Obviously, this occurs when you switch computers. However, this behavior will also occur if you're using the same machine and simply replace the network card, for example. Once the new identity is coordinated with the server, a few quick fixups are made and then you're running smoothly again, but nothing can be changed until a new "machine identity" is coordinated with the server.

There is absolutely nothing here motivated by DRM or control over how you access stuff, and it's personally very frustrating when that's the reaction many consumers have had to this architecture. In reality, it's all dictated by the desire to let users have MAXIMUM FLEXIBILITY in how and when they access their content, but we have to also guarantee that all that flexibility NEVER yields a conflict that will CORRUPT their data. It's a very difficult task that we could have simply solved by requiring users to always be online. But that wasn't our objective, and I'm very confident that allowing users to work offline is a huge benefit offered by Realm Works. The problem is that the flexibility has a trivial (IMO) cost, which is that we have to lock the client databases to specific machines in order to ensure everything works correctly.

I hope this all makes sense and helps alleviate the concerns over DRM and control.