Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Vancouver, Canada.
Posts: 818
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I don't have the data on which system has how many users.
I suspect either Pathfinder or DnD 5e have the most. 5e just has the SRD, so it's not a source of income really. I'd like them to add Pathfinder to HLO, and to charge enough that it is a revenue stream, not merely paying for the server. Since there isn't new content to sell us, make the Campaign Theater strong enough (both for the PF crowd and those who choose newer systems like PF2, 5e, Starfinder, etc) that we'll pay to have it's features. Then the masses of existing Hero Lab Classic users can help put Lone Wolf into a better financial position. I'm not sure on the numbers, or if that's even a viable approach. I'd hope that it is. |
#21 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 453
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The problem is, as much as I want PF1 for HLO, all the groups I play in use so many of the books and flimsies (sp?) that I couldn't use it until pretty much everything had been implemented. |
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#22 |
Member
Join Date: Nov 2018
Posts: 57
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I'm so excited about it that I "obtained" a PF2e CRB and tried to give it an honest chance. It's a mess and I hate it. Please LWD, bring Pathfinder to HLO. Don't let Paizo's terrible second edition be your focus. |
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#23 |
Senior Member
Lone Wolf Staff
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 691
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#24 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 302
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I kinda figured it was something like that, Joe. Instead of having Feats and class abilities be stacked like they were in HLC, they need the tree/chosen field to click into the HLO database.
Not a programmer, just looking at the differences between the two in how they interface between program and App browser clicks. |
#25 |
Senior Member
Lone Wolf Staff
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 691
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Quote:
The problem is that the typical video game RPG skill tree is typically fundamentally designed to be displayed entirely in 2 dimensions. Also, the progression is typically fairly straightforward: you must select the nodes early in the tree to get to nodes adjacent in the tree. Occasionally there are deviations, but they usually apply to the whole tree in a uniform way (e.g. choose X tier 1 perks to unlock tier 2, choose Y tier 2 perks to unlock tier 3, etc). Tabletop RPGs typically throw that kind of consistency and ease of presentation out the window because of the medium (print books) and the publishing model (game mechanics spread across many books and game designers, evolving over time). Feat/ability/etc (I'll just use Feat as a stand-in for all kinds of different abilities) prerequisites get messy. Some feats have a choice from among multiple prereqs, and this can happen at multiple levels in the chain, effectively creating multiple parallel trees that ALSO interlink with one another. Sometimes prereqs are of a different kind altogether (e.g. take feat X first, OR have 20+ STR). A great many feats have no prereqs at all, or have extremely short "trees" (only A linked to B, with no branches), meaning the presentation has to scale in a useful way from trivial trees to complex ones. This is all just scratching the surface, as it all gets way more complicated given that any given user could have any subset set of books, and the tree needs to be dynamically built/pruned at a moment's notice when they make purchases or switch off certain content for a character. All of these are surmountable problems, but they are not easy. That said, we know that our current system is lacking, and definitely has room for improvement before we hit this particular wall. Now that Campaign Theater is in beta, keep an eye out for us circling back to some of these older, more foundational systems in HLO to give them some love. |
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#26 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 302
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Just postulating about the differences between the two products (HLC and HLO) and the difficulty in getting the data from one to the other.
I think the structure in HLC might not transfer well to the new App. That is my impression of your answer above my comment. |
#27 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2018
Posts: 305
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Joe,
It's a thorny problem for sure. Rather than a graphical "tree", personally I'd be happy with the current list form, but with some expanded functionality within the descriptions themselves. For example, having a clickable link to prereq abilities instead of just listing them in plain text, listing prereqs to the prereqs in some sort of indented or nested form, and maybe even listing any abilities the current one is a prereq for. Just spitballing |
#28 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 125
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Quote:
For clickable links, simple functionality here could probably be to have the link set the search filter on the current view, or to have some kind of embed/popover of the text description if it's not applicable to the current view (like animal form and wild shape, since the latter is a focus spell). Last edited by Roadie; February 7th, 2020 at 12:49 PM. |
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#29 |
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