Senior Member
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Oh I agree, and am also of the opinion that cyberlimb armour is treated like helmets/shields etc.
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#11 |
Junior Member
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 3
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Mathias,
You assert that: “There's nothing in the Core Rulebook that suggests cyberlimb armor does apply to non-called damage tests.” This is correct. However the alternate position, that there is nothing in the Core Rulebook that suggests cyberlimb armor does not apply to non-called damage tests. There is only one piece of armor that only functions on called damage tests, the Protective Covers (for eyeware). The Protective Covers state (on SR4A 340) “Protective Covers: These can protect both cyber and normal eyes, and confer both Ballistic and Impact armor bonuses of +2 to the eye area. Available in transparent or one-way reflective versions.” However, Cyberlimb armor states on SR4A 344, “Armor enhancements installed on cyberlimbs are both Ballistic and Impact, and it is cumulative with all forms of worn armor.” This wording is consistent with Orthoskin (SR4A 346), Dermal Plating (SR4A 342), and Bone Lacing (341) which say “Orthoskin adds its rating to the character’s Ballistic and Impact ratings (cumulative with worn armor).” “Dermal plating confers a bonus to both Ballistic and Impact armor equal to its rating.” “Bone Lacing: The cellular structure of the user’s bones is aug- mented with lattice chains of reinforcing plastics and metals to im- prove the bones’ integrity and tensile strength, but the augmentation also adds extra weight. Plastic bone lacing confers a bonus of +1 to the Body attribute for damage resistance tests. Aluminum bone lacing confers a +2 Body bonus for damage resistance tests and a +1 Impact armor bonus (cumulative with worn armor). Titanium bone lacing confers bonuses of +3 to Body for damage resistance tests and +1 to both Ballistic and Impact armor. Characters with bone lacing also in- flict Physical damage with their unarmed blows. Bone Lacing is incom- patible with Bone Density Augmentation bioware.” To summarize, my argument is that you established an arbitrary rule (that the Core Rulebook didn’t say X so clearly it works like Y”) when instead the Core Rulebook treated cyberlimb armor with the same language as Orthoskin, Dermal Plating, and Bone Lacing. The Core Rulebook could have mentioned that cyberlimb armor only works on a specific area like Protective Covers, but it does not. Instead, Cyberlimb armor is treated the same as Orthoskin, Dermal Plating, and Bone Lacing which Hero Labs treats differently. |
#12 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: U.S. Northeast: Connecticut
Posts: 117
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Quote:
Seriously: A called shot to bypass armor bypasses ALL armor. All of it. No exceptions. So, your "for called shots only" armor idea, would result in ... no armor. They don't even get the armor from things like Ceramic Bone Lacing, or Orthoskin. They get 0/0 armor, period.(SR4A p161, emphasis mine) |
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#13 |
Senior Member
Lone Wolf Staff
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 13,243
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I apologize, but can we revisit this in a few weeks, please? I'm currently ripping my hair out over how I can allow you to spend karma to add a program option to a complex form (there are some aggravating limitations in how the advancements actually function within Hero Lab), and even after I finish that, I only have a few more weeks to finish all of Runner's Companion and Unwired. I'm afraid I don't currently have the time to study this issue any further.
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#14 |
Senior Member
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Quote:
It would appear that there is mounting evidence for cyberlimb armour to be treated as cumulative much like form fitting armour, helmets and other implant armour. This makes sense, though it does make even higher armour values possibe but capacity issues will balance that out (I hope). It'd be nice if CGL ruled, but having looked over some CGL generated NPC's I'm fairly sure this is the case. |
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#15 |
Junior Member
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 15
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Quote:
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#16 |
Senior Member
Lone Wolf Staff
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 13,243
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After three years of programming character generators based on five different publishers, I've stopped believing that NPCs built by the publisher are worth anything as evidence in a rules argument - they all very often fail to follow their own rules when writing NPCs (and pregens).
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#17 |
Senior Member
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#18 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: U.S. Northeast: Connecticut
Posts: 117
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Honestly, the simplest interim solution is: make it an Option, in the list of optional rules. Let individual players / GMs make their own rulings at home.
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#19 |
Senior Member
Lone Wolf Staff
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 13,243
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As an interim solution, on the In-Play Adjustments table on the Adjust tab, you can use the Armor - Ballistic and Armor - Impact adjustments to modify the values on one of your other armor pieces until the totals are correct.
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#20 |
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