Making a new game system

I was wondering if there would be a update for the authoring kit to build your own game system instead of just duplicating an existing one and having to keep the tabs and attribute of the parent game system.

Since I was planning on building a Dark Heresy game system but can't get the right attributes for the game system.

I have Dark Heresy files in progress.

What you're asking for is exactly what the authoring kit is. Read through the authoring kit wiki.

The Great Wolf said:

I was wondering if there would be a update for the authoring kit to build your own game system instead of just duplicating an existing one and having to keep the tabs and attribute of the parent game system.

Click to expand...

When you create a new game system with the Authoring Kit, it starts you out with a working set of data files. You are then expected to modify those data files to change everything, as necessary, for the intended game system. By starting you out with a fully operational set of data files, a large chunk of work is avoided and you can immediate start seeing results as you make the appropriate changes.

The wiki provides a detailed walk-through of how the Skeleton data files (starting files) were adapted for use with Savage Worlds. Entirely new mechanisms were added and the interface was substantially changed in an incremental fashion. I highly recommend you take a look at the walk-through, as it explains the entire process in great detail. You'll find it at the URL below:
http://hlkitwiki.wolflair.com/index.php5/Savage_Worlds_Walk-Through

Thanks working now

How do you modify/change/create outputs for printing? I can't find any information on creating your own sheets anywhere

Near the bottom of the Savage Worlds walkthrough is the section on creating character sheets for that game. However, that only helps for the Authoring kit games (Savage Worlds, 4ed), and not the package games (d20, M&M, WoD), which don't have their character sheets exposed.

Ahh, that explains it. And poo. What's the chance of them opening up just the character sheets for those games like WoD? I can't see how that would violate any copyrights letting users make extensions. Especially since we can add just about anything else (bloodlines, merits, etc) to the game.

Jamz said:

What's the chance of them opening up just the character sheets for those games like WoD?

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It's one of the things on our seemingly infinite todo list. The main problem is that the d20 and WoD files in particular are still using some antiquated mechanisms within HL. We've replaced these mechanisms with newer and better stuff for use within the Authoring Kit, but the d20 and WoD files are still using old stuff. Consequently, we have to revamp the d20 and WoD files to use the new stuff before we can publish the character sheet data files.

Awesome that someone is working on Dark Heresy. Can I get notification when you complete it?

Is anyone toiling away on Cyberpunk 2020? If not, is scratch building a system not in use anymore easy to do with the authoring system?

Assuming that the Dark Heresy files get completed and the author chooses to release them (I can't imagine why he wouldn't), then the data files will show up as a new game system in the Updates mechanism within HL.

As for Cyberpunk 2020, I think building data files for that game would be comparatively easy. The complexity is a function of the game system itself, since an out-of-print game like AD&D2E or Rolemaster would be significantly more complex than an out-of-print game like Cyberpunk or Amber.

Yeah, but I am waiting on purchasing HL until Dark Heresy is released.

Is anyone doing Castles & Crusades for HL? I have been trying but can't seem to get th Authoring kit to work for me... (Tech is a wonderful thing when it works for you!)

Having some trouble with the Authoring Kit, it seems. Hopefully someone can lend me a hand.

Before we begin, I am using Hero Lab on Mac OS X (Lion). I am proficient with Terminal, as I use Unix/Linux in my day job for more hours per day than I care to admit. I'm also an old hand at Mac OS "Finder Tricks" like showing invisible/hidden files, and have exhausted my library trying to make this work. Further, I have been doing my best to dutifully follow the Authoring Kit Wiki. I hope some assistance can be found!

My problem is that I am unable to locate the folder for the game system I am attempting to create. The folder shows up within Hero Lab when I attempt to Import File, and can be selected from within Hero Lab using the Editor, but when I attempt to locate the folder itself manually, it is nowhere to be found.

Steps to replicate:

- Develop Menu -> Enable Data File Debugging
- Develop Menu -> Create New Game System...
- Name system folder (use only lowercase letters and 0-9 numbers)
- Name game system (as per game book)
- Get confirmation system files have been created
- Switch to new system, verify it loads

Here is where the issue begins.

Firstly: None of the "Open File" options within Hero Lab and/or the HL Editor will allow me to edit the "definition.def" file. Folder is visible under "Data"*, but I cannot select the definition.def file. File is visible, but subdued and unable to be selected.

Secondly: Finder -> Applications -> Hero Lab -> right/ctrl-click application icon -> Show Package Contents -> Opens package -> internal folders visible. Navigate to:

-> LWD -> data* (more on this in a minute) -> list of game systems available... But no sign of mine.

So, what I've got here is that the application can see the folder, but that I cannot find it via Terminal, Finder, nor other means.

Further, that "*" I've used twice now indicates a very disturbing issue:

The folder in the package is labeled "Data" when viewed from within the program (the HLE), but "data" when viewed from within terminal and/or Finder. This may be a function of how the HLE views things (especially since through the HLE I can view the cache files for each game system). If it's not, however, there may be a file structure issue that could be causing some issues - especially if HL/HLE looks for case sensitive structures (I wouldn't think it does, but it might!).

So. I'm at a loss. I need to edit these files, but I cannot. Can't find them = can't edit them.

Any and all suggestions would be appreciated.

Hi Jemstone,

You can find the data file folder by loading the game system in Hero Lab, then going to the Tools menu -> Explore Folders submenu -> Game System folder. Unfortunately we don't have an application that lets you edit the definition.def file - you'll need to edit it in a text editor.

You can find more information on data file authoring here: http://hlkitwiki.wolflair.com/

Hope this helps!

Colen said:

Hi Jemstone,

You can find the data file folder by loading the game system in Hero Lab, then going to the Tools menu -> Explore Folders submenu -> Game System folder. Unfortunately we don't have an application that lets you edit the definition.def file - you'll need to edit it in a text editor.

You can find more information on data file authoring here: http://hlkitwiki.wolflair.com/

Hope this helps!

Click to expand...

Actually, Colen, this helped TREMENDOUSLY.

For future reference:

Open HL -> Load Game System -> Tools -> Explore Folders -> Game System Data Folder

Opens a Finder Window directly to the Application Support subdirectory that the items necessary to modify live in. It's possible that I missed this if it was referenced in the wiki, but I didn't see it when I was doing my search for solutions.

For what it's worth, the game data files are held in:

Users -> (username) -> Library -> Application Support -> Hero Lab -> Data -> System Name

This also explains the Data/data naming disparity I noticed earlier.

Wiki/FAQ update candidate, maybe?

Thank you a ton! (Metric or Imperial, your choice!)

...this information would have been extremely helpful, took an hour of my trying to figure it out, then another hour to find this post...this is going to be a long and drawn out process but I will prevail. Then afterwards, RealmWorks to figure that out and incorporate everything from HL into RealmWorks for Dark Heresy...

rob said:

Assuming that the Dark Heresy files get completed and the author chooses to release them (I can't imagine why he wouldn't), then the data files will show up as a new game system in the Updates mechanism within HL.

Click to expand...

Not having money to fight Games Workshop over Copyright Infringement is enough reason not to release them, Rob. I suggest anyone working on the Warhammer 40,000 rpg books first read the copyright text of those books carefully before deciding on releasing data for it. Just before the table of contents in a rectangular brick there are words which exist that will prevent me from releasing the data to the community without a proper license for the data. I'm pretty certain GW considers hero lab to be a Data Retrieval System which is why I won't share the files I've done.

Their updated copyright information expressly prohibits having the data in Retrieval systems (I'm sure thats a fancy way of saying hero lab/army builder type databases) or sharing it electronically without the publisher's permission. I'm not sitting on a few million dollars to battle GW over copyright. GW is one of the companies that will come after you for violation of copyright, they don't even like people taking pictures in their stores as it is.

Deathwatch line rpg books have the following line in the copyright block:
"No part of this publication may be reproduced, stored in a retrieval sysyem, or transmitted in any form by any means, electronic, mechanical, photocopying, recording or otherwise, without the prior permission of the publisher." This is why I've stopped working on the data files and am not going to finish them any time soon, and why I'm not sharing what I've done.

AD&D 2e is a dead system, much like Alternity. I'm more willing to share this data because I don't see TSR filing a lawsuit over it, plus their copyright info in the books wasn't outspoken on databases (Gary Gygax and Dave Arneson aren't likely to show up on my doorstep in their ghostly forms to dispute the files either).

Take a look at my sig for my C&C Hero Lab plugin.


BoomerET