Anyone using Syrinscape?

I bought this program two years ago, and I was a later adopter (after the Kickstarter). The program was and still is barely functional for my needs.

You keep posting your "STOP ASSUMING!" bits, and you keep getting upset when people get frustrated with your information sharing (or lack thereof), or with your development process, or with your community management.

Perhaps your continual need to keep posting that should be a hint that something might be broken. Having to repeatedly tell users to stop making assumptions in light of the lack of information should be a hint that we're feeling a lack of information.

So, it's been two years. The complete lack of communication on what is going to appear next, when it will appear, or what level of functionality it will have is a running joke here. The fact that everyone knows who is waiting for the calendars that were promised, and there are little holy wars over calendar versus export, and all of that? That's a sign that people have no idea what you are doing. New users come in waves and we have to answer a whole new round of "Where is this functionality?" "Where is that functionality?" every few months, and we have to answer them with "Hey, get in line, we're all waiting and have no idea what's going on." The cyclic sets of comments and jokes about what features people want next, and what priorities they are, but we've done that a half dozen times while we wait? That's a user base that has resigned themselves to wait in the dark and make jokes from their complete helplessness. You as a leader should think about that. Your users are designing a forum culture around your company's lack of provision of features or information about those features. It would be absurd if it wasn't so frustrating.

It's been two years since I bought this program. Two years. There's no ETA or published plan for when any of the major functionality that's been promised or requested will be available. I have no information on when it's going to get any better.

Don't get me wrong. I love this program. I want this program to be amazing. It could be so freaking fantastic. But it's been two years of "could be, might be, you're slowing things down by asking".

So when, after two years of waiting and dumping my data into a program that I can not get it out of again, waiting for features that I have no idea when or if they are coming, I see a completely contextless line in a release document about how an unrequested feature practically no one will use is now added, I think I have a reasonable right to be frustrated. I think I have the right to express frustration about what's going on without being condescended to by the very person that's in charge of the issue.

"Hey, that function only took a couple of hours! Don't worry! It's a test case for other cool integrations! We're still working hard on the important stuff!" would have been the end of it, because it would have at least acknowledged that you're aware of what your outward face looks like. Please don't get righteously indignant at my frustration with your product management. You as a business owner don't get to decide how or when people express their frustration, but you do get to decide the tone with which you respond.

"Trust us" only works for so long when the user community is completely in the dark. I have to have reason to trust you, and quite frankly you haven't shown me any reason to. The information we get from you is to shut up and stop bothering you so that you can code and then silence. It seems like everything ends with "you're delaying something important by questioning." The public face of your company is that your user base is an annoyance.

I won't project this outwards and pretend to speak for anyone else but myself. If you want, you can pretend that it's only me and that banning me or telling me to stop using the product, or write yet another frustrated-sounding post about how busy you are and how you don't have time for this and it's obviously my fault.

You can pretend it's only me that's frustrated, but I think you'll be wrong.

My apologies for daring to let my frustration show at an inconvenient time, in an unapproved manner.

I have to agree with AEIOU, I put a whole AP on hiatus because of the lack of a calender, that I was hoping we would have had six months ago or more. If it's so close to being ready then why is it taking so long to get it?

Anyway...

I can do the same thing, and more, as Syniscape with Scene Sound for free and with being able to embed files with Foreign Object I can use a saved soundscape, click on it during game, an instance of Scene Sound pops up and starts playing to soundscape. Eazy Peazy!

Erdrix said:

I have to agree with AEIOU, I put a whole AP on hiatus because of the lack of a calender, that I was hoping we would have had six months ago or more. If it's so close to being ready then why is it taking so long to get it?

Anyway...

I can do the same thing, and more, as Syniscape with Scene Sound for free and with being able to embed files with Foreign Object I can use a saved soundscape, click on it during game, an instance of Scene Sound pops up and starts playing to soundscape. Eazy Peazy!

Click to expand...

Hooraa for Erdrix Another Calendar Crusader!
And interesting heads up on the Scene Sound looks promising.... here's a link for others to take a peak at it.
Scene Sound

I'm sure SyrinScape is reading this thread so constructive feedback for them would be really helpful for them to frame their future.

I have a small library of soundfiles from Kickstarters and other sources. Whichever sound solution I might adopt needs to be able to leverage that content the I already own.

I like handouts and fluff for the players. But I like to be able to modify or update it to fit my setting. Someone earlier commented that the sounds may not be what they hear in their head. The proposed editor from SyrinScape would resolve some of this. A sound solution needs to be able to be adapted to each GM's situation.

I don't want more programs running.... Between RW, d20pro, HL and a PDF, that's already too many. Keep things simple. Adding a link for a customized soundset to a snippet is ideal. Fire and forget.

I should do a tutorial on how I use Scene Sound in Realm Works. It's pretty close to "fire and forget". Just that when it's a looping soundscape you have to remember to close the program when you are done with it.

Cool thing is I can layer it. For example I have several premade soundscapes that I use for different environments, like forest_day, forest_night, plains_day, plains_night, camp and so forth. I only have to make those once and I can reuse them over and over.

So, I have those running in the background the whole time the party is in that area, then I make encounter soundscapes and these can be general use files as well. These generally include random grunts and yells and stuff like that and maybe a battle song. Anytime the party fights skeletons I just load up the skeletons fight soundscape. If I know the fight is going to happen before hand I just ad the file into a snippet on that encounter scene, click it, Scene Sound loads up in the background and autostarts playing. When the encounter is done simply close that instance of Scene Sound and the background soundscape is still going.

Looks like I kind of made a mini tutorial on it.

Erdrix said:

I should do a tutorial on how I use Scene Sound in Realm Works. It's pretty close to "fire and forget". Just that when it's a looping soundscape you have to remember to close the program when you are done with it.

Cool thing is I can layer it. For example I have several premade soundscapes that I use for different environments, like forest_day, forest_night, plains_day, plains_night, camp and so forth. I only have to make those once and I can reuse them over and over.

So, I have those running in the background the whole time the party is in that area, then I make encounter soundscapes and these can be general use files as well. These generally include random grunts and yells and stuff like that and maybe a battle song. Anytime the party fights skeletons I just load up the skeletons fight soundscape. If I know the fight is going to happen before hand I just ad the file into a snippet on that encounter scene, click it, Scene Sound loads up in the background and autostarts playing. When the encounter is done simply close that instance of Scene Sound and the background soundscape is still going.

Looks like I kind of made a mini tutorial on it.

Click to expand...

That is good info. I used Scene Sound a long time ago and ran into lots of issues moving the sound between my main computer and laptop. Maybe by using Realm Works I can solve that issue. It does look like they have kept improving the software so maybe its better now....

Thanks!

Currently what is nice about Syrinscape is that I don't have to move stuff between computers as its part of your account. But I do have gigs and gigs of my own sound files I would like to use. Syrinscape was suppose to have that feature but not as of yet.

ShadowChemosh said:

That is good info. I used Scene Sound a long time ago and ran into lots of issues moving the sound between my main computer and laptop. Maybe by using Realm Works I can solve that issue. It does look like they have kept improving the software so maybe its better now....

Thanks!

Currently what is nice about Syrinscape is that I don't have to move stuff between computers as its part of your account. But I do have gigs and gigs of my own sound files I would like to use. Syrinscape was suppose to have that feature but not as of yet.

Click to expand...

I do keep my sound files in dropbox, but admittedly, I use my desktop for prep and running, so I'm not sure how well that'll work.

But...

You can save soundscapes two ways: one was just saves the settings you set up and requires the sound files to be on your computer. The second way saves the files with it as a package.

Erdrix said:

You can save soundscapes two ways: one was just saves the settings you set up and requires the sound files to be on your computer. The second way saves the files with it as a package.

Click to expand...

Oh yeah if the sound was part of the package that should make it really easy to move between computers. I will need to download the latest version and try it out again. Thanks!

Hi everyone! I was working this weekend getting ready for Gen Con, but I was heads down and didn’t take a look at the forums until today.

@everyone, as Rob said, the functionality for Syinscape integration was already built in from before, so getting it ready for them to use took a few hours for both testing and verification. This will be the same mechanism we’ll use for integration with other third part apps going forward.

Let me first be clear that our priorities have not changed. The vast majority of our time is spent on the Content Market and the web version, plus various pieces that are needed to meet those objectives. As users have seen in product updates over the past months, we’ve also been opportunistically adding various small refinements when time allows, just as we said we would do at the beginning of the year. This initial integration step for third-party apps is simply one of those quick-and-easy enhancements. It does not reflect a change in the team’s priorities.

Like Rob, I was disappointed to see the rush to judgement. In the future, please ask if something is not clear. I think that between my posts and Rob’s, we’ve demonstrated our willingness to provide clarity if users are ever confused or unsure about something. If you don’t want to post your question on the forums, you can always send me a PM asking for clarification. If it’s something where I think many people might be similarly concerned or unclear, I can post on the forums. I don’t think that will happen often, but I’m happy to offer my availability up to the community.

As for frustrations about “soon”, man do I get that. I was just on a podcast talking about Realm Works, and I really wanted to give my “best-guess” estimate for the web version and the Content Market based on what I’ve heard recently from the development team.

As many of you know, I’m married to Joe (the lead developer on the web version), so I know first-hand how progress is going, as it’s a part of our evening “how was your day, dear?” conversations. However, those conversations have also made me more aware of something else: (1) we’re building this from the ground up, (2) it’s huge and complex, and (3) it’s breaking new ground that other programs haven’t touched before. Because of this, there are many unknowns that we don’t run into with our other products, like Hero Lab or Army Builder.

Following the Kickstarter, we provided a lot of information about development progress, and our best-guess estimates. Unfortunately, that led to two issues. 1) Users would critique development decisions based on incomplete information or draw incorrect assumptions based on the information we provided. This required a lot of development resources to respond to and correct the false assumptions and misconceptions. 2) The “best-guess” estimates were interpreted as promised release dates and when we “missed” them (for the reasons I mentioned above), it led to a lot of (understandable) frustration among our users.

That experience forced us to change our approach. Instead of providing estimates and extensive information on development progress as in the past, we’ve instead focused on showing visible progress as we hit milestones – for example, the sneak peek of Realm works on the web a few months back and now the imminent preview at Gen Con. Unfortunately, it seems some people want it both ways, and that merely creates a double-bind that can’t be resolved. Since providing details didn’t work well and, more importantly, ended up consuming a fair amount of critical developer resources, we’re not doing that for the time being. I hope that clarifies things a little on why we’re not sharing estimates right now.

What I can do is provide some basic, qualitative information. While there hasn’t been much visible movement to show on the Content Market, significant progress is being made. The best analogy, and one we’ve used many times before, is an iceberg, where only a small portion can actually be seen above the water. The Content Market is a huge iceberg, and a lot has (and continues to) go on beneath the surface. Virtually all the pieces that consumers will ultimately see are built upon the foundation beneath, so there’s nothing of substance to show off right now. Once we focus more heavily “above the water” in the months ahead, we’ll be able to show off visible progress.

All that being said, there may be ways we can improve how we share our progress without the drawbacks we experienced before. I’ll be mulling everyone’s feedback over while I’m at Gen Con (including the PMs I’ve received over the past few days). Please understand that I won’t be able to respond to posts/PMs much this week because of the Con, but I’m reading them.

And now back to the original question: Do I use Syrinscape?
No.

Will I use it?
As others said the price is a bit high and I do not know if it will actually add something to the games I play. Until now I have refrained from using sounds during play (other than those grunts made by the players) as I feel it may diverge the game from what I want: To tell the story.

So I am interested in what others who do use sounds feel that it adds to the storytelling.

Cornelius said:

So I am interested in what others who do use sounds feel that it adds to the storytelling.

Click to expand...

For me, most sound effects would be distracting, but "mood music" could work. I really like the Witchwood sound sound effect, a free sample that comes with the Syrinscape demo. Nice, not overly intrusive mood music, with some light "spooky woods" effects. Adding the raining again layer is nice as well.

Good quality sound tracks like this for a variety of scenarios could be quite nice, so long as I don't have to fiddle with software too much during the game.

What I really have little interest in are the special effects that require me to trigger when somebody does something in the game, like "fire spell", "ice spell", "gasp", etc. I don't want to turn my game in to an old-timey radio show and I don't want to play DJ. I have enough to manage during the game.

Another example of what I *don't* want is the "Bugbear Battle" sample. I would like it if I could stip out the vocalizations. I like the battle music and also like how I can switch up the tempo and heighten the mood with the "Defeat is Imminent" option. But the growls and shouts distract. One, because...well, is that how you hear bugbears in your minds ear? No. Too bad. But also...I can just imagine that I'm narrating the battle or discussing with a player what his character is doing only to be interrupted by a loud, guttural, growl. Distracting. There is a no swords option, but there isn't a non-vocals option.

IF Syrinscape has lots of music only and non-distracting background sounds options AND IF I can easily launch this from realmworks with minimal fuss, then I could that it could add to the game.

One additional benefit that I just thought of is that good mood music and REDUCE distraction? How? Well, during more lengthy battles there is often side discussion among players that is appropriate, but creates background chatter. The music may actually make that background chatter less distracting. You would think it would be just another distraction, but at least I find it much more difficult to concentrate in a dead quiet college library with a couple of students whispering to each other a few tables away than I do in a loud coffee show with music playing and lost of normal-to-loud conversations happening around me. Music has away to blend all surrounding conversations into the background making it easier to focus on the one you are having with someone (one reason why restaurants play music, I assume—less distracted by conversations at other tables and by the sounds of people masticating their food).

As others have already noted, I have little need for a sound for every spell casted or weapon brandished... to me this just turns it into a PC gamer mentality.

With that said however,
I do utilize a lot of background sound effects.... having a dedicated room to game in helps to do that.

However..... there is nothing like utilizing the surround sound under the table to add background of a loud market place as the PCs search around, or the creeks and drips of a dungeon crawl, or the tranquility of birds in the woodlands as they quest to thru the elven realms. To me this helps my players immerse to full effect.

On special occasions (we call them Game-a-Thons) twice a year, I do prep a special track to use in conjunction with the events..... A nice explosion from out of no where as the evil wizard arrives or a well timed battle music by Two Steps from Hell, brings the barbarian in the group to life! I have even on occasion, had Gregorian chants in the background when they visit a church or monastery, or howling winds as they went through the frozen north or high seas.....

The trick is that the sound should add, not become the game.. IMO

just my 2cp
DLG

MNBlockHead said:

I can just imagine that I'm narrating the battle or discussing with a player what his character is doing only to be interrupted by a loud, guttural, growl. Distracting. There is a no swords option, but there isn't a non-vocals option.

Click to expand...

Each of the components of the overall sound can be turned off (e.g. growls) by sliding the individual volume to the left. The settings will remain until you click on one of the other predefined settings (e.g. the "No Swords" button).

Dark Lord Galen said:

As others have already noted, I have little need for a sound for every spell casted or weapon brandished... to me this just turns it into a PC gamer mentality.

Click to expand...

I'm a PC gamer and I don't really see what you mean by that

Apart from PC games, there are plenty of areas where sound effects are used to immerse people:

- movies (especially hollywood movies)
- theme parks
- casinos
- theatre

Role playing is also about setting up a scene, sound effects could be part of it, why not. It is far from being used only by the video game industry.

If I did this right, here is an example of a soundscape I use with Scene Sound. Go to Scene Sound open package. Plains_Day

Bobifle said:

I'm a PC gamer and I don't really see what you mean by that

Click to expand...

Your point on industry use are certainly true,

For clarification, in the world of Roleplaying games, I have noticed through the years (35 plus) a progressive mentality to turn RPGs into what I refer to as PC game types. Even here within RW forum, there is a movement to turn a DM world maintenance tool into a VTT (which is certainly a cousin to the PC game genre). When even the designers have stated more than once, they didn't build it with that in mind.... but that is another story....

It started with Wolfenstien, progressed to others like Pool of Radiance, to the bard's tale, to the Ultima series, to MMO types such as Everquest and World of Warcraft and so on.... Don't miss read this as a negative, I can see the appeal and enjoyment of such games, it is just an observation of how technology has effected even the gaming world. But in counter to those creations, they hardly have the versatility of a good RPG. To make up for that lack of versatility, the producers (IMO) add, better and better graphics, and sound to add to the experience.

But lets face it .. there is only so many choice options in Knights of the Old Republic (yea I have played all the possible variable choices of light and dark). That is why manufacturers continue to sell the user on a newer and better "widget" to snare the faithful, once again, in the net of past glory. With the hope of a new and more varied experience.

Not to say WOC hasn't done the exact same thing, constantly creating "new core rules" to pry the $ from your pockets. But that approach appeals to some, some like the "newest" whatever or they wouldn't stand all night out infront of whatever store to have it first... And to others (like myself) find it a poorly disguised money grab. In the case of RPGs, iF it were not the case of the latter being more true, the success of Paizo's Pathfinder, Frog God, Green Rohin, etc would not exist in the successful state they currently enjoy. Even WOC/Hazbro had to coincide they have lost market share to third party companies because of a poor business model decision of more core books = more $ than good supplements of existing core works.

Anyway, I have deviated, sound within the game......

Again IMO by adding sounds to it could cascade to everything from the casting of spells like Magic missile, or drawing a sword, shoot an arrow, ect. In a PC game these are integral to the program because of its story line limitations. They add a different element to the experience, immersive sound effects, in exchange for the narrative limitations.

When does it become cumbersome and a distraction? Do we start to have voice emulators instead of the Player taking on that role?

To each his own and I'm not implying any one way is better or worse... For me too much "representative sound" for sake of "entertaining" misses the point of a true RPG.

hope that clarifies,
and to lastly clarify, I enjoy PC games, I just don't limit my RPG games to PC game shortcomings (lack of broad storyline choices and true interaction).

my 2cp
DLG

Erdrix said:

If I did this right, here is an example of a soundscape I use with Scene Sound. Go to Scene Sound open package. Plains_Day

Click to expand...

Good JOB Erdrix....

I would use something like that.. good background, but not distracting!
My druid will try to strike up a conversation with all those birds

Dark Lord Galen said:

To each his own and I'm not implying any one way is better or worse... For me too much "representative sound" for sake of "entertaining" misses the point of a true RPG.
DLG

Click to expand...

This is maybe where we clearly disagree. To me, nothing can better describe a sound that the sound itself. It's not about entertainment, it's about accurate description.

Talented story tellers (which I'm not) with their extend vocabulary can actually do perfectly the job. That does not mean the actual sound would not.

However I'm not using sound effects at the table because:

• it's too much prep
• no room for improv

Well, I see the RPG to be more like the book - vivid descriptions fleshed out by the imagination of the reader - eh - player.

I don't think I would want to use sound effects (except as background such as silent rain, moody low music) - at least not continously, rather as a once per session at the climax.

Here is Forest_Night.