Pre-Order Rise of the Runelords for Hero Lab

Does this mean we'll have access to the monsters in the back of the APs? Or only the ones that are actually in the adventure?

I thought the only monsters that appeared in the bestiary at the back of the AP were ones which appeared somewhere in the adventure? In which case, we'd have to add them to include in the AP's portfolios.

Not all monsters in the back are in the APs

Guess it's an open question then. I'll have to defer to my betters.

AndrewD2 said:

Not all monsters in the back are in the APs

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In the RotR AE, all of the monsters in the bestiary appendix are used in encounters.

psych777 said:

ive never used these files so sorry if this seems a silly question....
are these ap files only used by the gm's? what would a player need them for?

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It is a good question, and really the answer is no. In fact the player could "cheat" with these files. They really are directed only at the GM running the AP.

There may be some limited use of the NPCs for a player, but really this is a GM tool, not a general use tool. One of the reasons it is a bit higher priced than a normal package, it has a one time purchase per group, as opposed to all in the group buying it I am thinking.

Exmortis said:

It is a good question, and really the answer is no. In fact the player could "cheat" with these files. They really are directed only at the GM running the AP.

There may be some limited use of the NPCs for a player, but really this is a GM tool, not a general use tool. One of the reasons it is a bit higher priced than a normal package, it has a one time purchase per group, as opposed to all in the group buying it I am thinking.

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I feel like the price point being so high is actually a deterrent to players cheating by buying this package.

I mean, you can get the Anniversary edition from 1/2 price books or ebay for less than $25.

Or, to cheat better you'd spend $42 on the PDF direct from Paizo, and not only know what monsters you'd be fighting, but also what the plot is, where the traps are, how to get the best XP/Gold value from encounters, secret rooms, etc....

My question is, do people ACTUALLY share costs in their groups? I've NEVER been part of a group that shared costs. I'm about $1,000 in spending for my own group (Hero Lab stuff, RW, books, supplies, maps, etc...). I don't mind, since I'm the Librarian of my group, but I've not seen a red cent from those freeloaders in the 5 years we've been playing together.

Come to think of it...I always cook dinner for these cheapskates too....

(Who's a sucker? I'm a sucker.)

mototom said:

In the RotR AE, all of the monsters in the bestiary appendix are used in encounters.

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Ah OK, most of my experience is with the original release and in every other AP there are monsters not used in the individual bestiaries.

Pollution said:

My question is, do people ACTUALLY share costs in their groups? I've NEVER been part of a group that shared costs. I'm about $1,000 in spending for my own group (Hero Lab stuff, RW, books, supplies, maps, etc...). I don't mind, since I'm the Librarian of my group, but I've not seen a red cent from those freeloaders in the 5 years we've been playing together.

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Our group splits cost on the shared items. So miniatures, tables, chairs etc. We have a lot of stuff now that will follow the group, its all shared cost.

Each player is responsible for buying their own software, Herolab, RWPE, books, dice, Paizo PDFs, etc.

GM covers cost of modules, RW GM edition, HL AP encounters (GM who is running this is May just pre-ordered this new HL add-on).

SO its decent arrangement, GM pays little more, but that's the cost of being GM. IF we order food, its shared.

Gorta said:

Does this mean we'll have access to the monsters in the back of the APs? Or only the ones that are actually in the adventure?

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If we sell an Adventure Path package with monsters in the back of the AP that are not in the encounters, you will still receive all of the monsters in the back of the AP when you purchase that Adventure Path package.

Exmortis said:

It is a good question, and really the answer is no. In fact the player could "cheat" with these files. They really are directed only at the GM running the AP.

There may be some limited use of the NPCs for a player, but really this is a GM tool, not a general use tool. One of the reasons it is a bit higher priced than a normal package, it has a one time purchase per group, as opposed to all in the group buying it I am thinking.

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thanks!

we always split costs for food, but books and software and minatures were all up to individuals

Hey All! Sorry I got sick just as this came out. Life always happens!

So yes LW did contact me about this awhile ago and we talked. The big question is what happens to the community stuff. The "GM Packs" (ie user files) are NOT changing so a custom monster in the GM Pack is not going to go away. For example in RotRL "Sins of the Saviors" we have a custom "Iron Archer" monster. That will NOT be going away. So if you have a .por/.stock file made with this monster or want to make one in a month or year from now you can.

What I did agree to do was to take down the .zip files that contain the encounter or .por files. This is the same agreement that the community made with LW many many years ago in regards to the Player Companions. At one time the community was creating the Player Companion .user files for books like Elves of Golarion and Dwarves of Golarion. Then LW got a license and started to work on these officially. So the community stopped doing new books and as the official books came out the .user files where removed from d20pfsrd.

Going forward is the same concept in that as official APs come out from LW the Community Files hosted on d20pfsrd will becoming down. We have also agreed to not do any more AP's going forward. Everything in the current "GM Packs" will stay as they are but no new things for APs will be created.

Using the LW version will hopefully enable faster support and getting out new packages as the AP's come out. Images will be nice too. Another big plus is that if something is needed from a one-off book you will get access to that thing. For example in Reign of Winter the need of the Paths of Prestige Winter Witch will be included in your purchase of RoW AP. With the community stuff you would have to buy that package individually and you may not even know you needed that license until you tried to open the .por file. This will be really helpful for AP's like Wrath of the Righteous that pulls form dozens of small books.

This does not mean the death of the GM/Mythic Pack. We will still be supporting Paizo and 3PP Modules going forward (ie Tears at Bitter Manor comes out this month). I can see this allowing us to spread more easily into the 3PP area to get things like the Psionic Bestiary entered into HL. I do think this is a good thing moving forward.

Just like no one cares today about the old Player Companions that the community did, no one will care about these old APs a year from now either. In case anyone is wondering I did not take any money for this from LW just like I am not paid for anything I do for the HL community. I honestly think going forward this is the right way to go and we should support LW. The community is meant to support areas of HL that are not supported officially not to compete against the software. Competing against the software we all use would not help to benefit anyone in the long run.

ShadowChemosh said:

I honestly think going forward this is the right way to go and we should support LW. The community is meant to support areas of HL that are not supported officially not to compete against the software. Competing against the software we all use would not help to benefit anyone in the long run.

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You have my utmost and complete support, you are 100% correct. The community is here to support each other, and in turn we all must support Lone Wolf as well.

I think this is a great new business stream for LWD, and our GM for our new campaign starting in May has already pre ordered this new product.

Thanks for the post SC, and go back to bed and get some rest.

Having a very tight budget I'm sad that the community will no longer be able to create the files, but I understand it's a great deal for LW and the community will be able to do other projects. Thanks for everything in the past and I look forward to seeing what the future brings.

On another note...

Villadelfia said:

I hope you're joking. I paid a lot of money, several hundreds of euros, in a short period of time to get access to every single first party pathfinder source you offer.

Now you're telling me that, to get access to what boils down to pre-made portfolios with the advantage of not having to own all the sources I'm going to have to pay 25$, even though I own all the sources?

And don't tell me that it's "only 12 cent per encounter". The fact is that the big majority of encounters boil down to 3 of x monster, and those are not the encounters I want to buy. The only reason I would want pre-made portfolios is for the dozen or so hard encounter to rebuild, you know the few monster where you need to wrestle with hero lab because Paizo made a typo etc..

With that in mind it's closer to 2$ per REAL encounter. And that's simply too much.

That said, if you're also planning for a 4.99$ version that DOES require you to own all the packages needed, I will retract whatever I said above. Because 24.99$ is an attractive price for not having to buy 100$ worth of sources, just not when you already own them.

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I agree that the cost is too high, but my argument regards what a GM has already paid. A complete Adventure Path costs $137.94 for all six hard copies, $95.94 for all six PDFs, and $233.88 for all six hard copies and PDFs. That doesn't include shipping costs. It does cost less if someone is a subscriber but it's still a big chunk of money. Now we have to pay $25 for the HL version bringing the cost to run an Adventure Path to over $100 if just the PDFs are bought, over $250 for hard copy version (over $300 if you include shipping).

We don't get donations from our players or charge them for our time and expenses not to mention some of us (ME) are on a tight budget. I can see $10 or even $15, but I feel that $25 is just too much.

liz said:

As ShadowChemosh mentioned in the thread he posted, we reached out to him prior to moving forward with this new package, and he’s aware of our plans. Unfortunately, he’s currently ill, and so it may take some time for him to post his thoughts. (Get well soon, SC!)

Given that ShadowChemosh plays a key part in distributing community content, we ask that you hold your questions on the subject until he has a chance to share his thoughts. Thanks for working with us on this!

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Is there a legal reason why these community files would become unavailable? I.E. is there some new reason we can't share our AP portfolios or is it just a matter of not wanting some possible conflicting files on community and not wanting to maintain them with official versions?

I am also curious if you are using the community packs as a starting point for the work on products or if you started from scratch on them?

ruhar said:

We don't get donations from our players or charge them for our time and expenses not to mention some of us (ME) are on a tight budget. I can see $10 or even $15, but I feel that $25 is just too much.

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Every group I play with doesn't use the APs, at least not for the adventures.
If your group can't accept the fact that you don't personally want to pay all the money for the APs, and they really want to play the APs specifically, then they really have 2 choices:
1. Help with expenses
2. Find a GM willing to pay for everything so they can play for free

The alternative is you build your own modules, and, eventually a campaign world (After you start building a few cities and dungeons)

Whoever told you that you, as a GM, had to spend all the money was lying, and perhaps its time to find a new group, or a new playstyle

ruhar said:

On another note...


I agree that the cost is too high, but my argument regards what a GM has already paid. A complete Adventure Path costs $137.94 for all six hard copies, $95.94 for all six PDFs, and $233.88 for all six hard copies and PDFs. That doesn't include shipping costs. It does cost less if someone is a subscriber but it's still a big chunk of money. Now we have to pay $25 for the HL version bringing the cost to run an Adventure Path to over $100 if just the PDFs are bought, over $250 for hard copy version (over $300 if you include shipping).

We don't get donations from our players or charge them for our time and expenses not to mention some of us (ME) are on a tight budget. I can see $10 or even $15, but I feel that $25 is just too much.

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In future drop the PDFs and save 96 bucks, buy the HL files and you have 50 bucks for pizza and beer. Or buy the PDFs drop the books Save over $110 for beer and pizza.

I stopped buying hard covers as soon as I bought into HL, I buy PDFs and the HL files.

Yes if you already bought all of those it is yet another expense. But what everyone here is forgetting is the HL AP files are a limited use item, one in every group may want them, and only if they choose to run that AP. Thus it is a vertical market, for those who are market understanding challenged, this means a higher price due too greatly reduced sales potential.

LWD has to make money off the product. Considering this is likely 15hours of work, take your salary and multiply it by 15. What is that number? If it is less than $25, then I say yes buying it is a terrible value. However if it is more, then you must decide for your self, what value do you put on your free time?

Me?

My free time is worth twice what I paid to be at work.

As mentioned ask your party for financial assistance, our group has 5 GMs so we all split the cost amongst us, by each running their own campaign every 18-24 months. Take a collection, 1 dollar every game day, if your "friend" or "players" do not think that a dollar is fair fore a game day of fun? Well I think that answers it self. We all have budgets, but no where does it state you must alone bare the burden, tell your group you need some assistance, a few dollars from each player will go along way. Hell even if they toss in 10 bucks each every AP based campaign.

Seriously man, I am sorry but I think this is not about the cost of the HL as much as it is who you player with.

If you subscribe to APs you get 20% off the cover and a free PDF.

ruhar said:

I agree that the cost is too high, but my argument regards what a GM has already paid. A complete Adventure Path costs $137.94 for all six hard copies, $95.94 for all six PDFs, and $233.88 for all six hard copies and PDFs. That doesn't include shipping costs. It does cost less if someone is a subscriber but it's still a big chunk of money. Now we have to pay $25 for the HL version bringing the cost to run an Adventure Path to over $100 if just the PDFs are bought, over $250 for hard copy version (over $300 if you include shipping). .

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Or you can hand prepare your own .por files. The only real issue is hand-coding the unique special magic items created for the AP's.