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6th Edition

Hi Tekwych (cool name, btw) - while I can't speak to the speeds of various browsers and such, I can speak for your data. We will never hold it hostage! You will always be able to see your content, regardless of whether or not you pay for a subscription, you just wouldn't be able to level up your characters. But that data is YOURS.

As for the company going out of business, we were established more than 20 years ago, and have been growing strong ever since. We continue to add content and services as we grow and we have plans to be around for a very long time to come.

Thanks for the comment!
 
Tekwych said:
-LWD is giving up control of the user interface to whatever browser the end user has. While they can try to control it the browser manages how the code gets implemented. Often modern CSS and HTML needs numerous adjustments to get a browser to even display the page.
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This is a good thing, one interface for all devices, right now they have three code GUI code bases for the three supported platforms, they moved it to just one. Easier to maintain. Also the CSS and HTML differences are usually handled by whatever tools are being used, i.e React, etc.
-LWD is giving up user experience to extremely random internet connections and speeds. Yes they do the same to platform, processor, and RAM but at least you can set standards.
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I think this is related to the server issues and not bandwidth on the device, the bandwidth they claimed was somehing like 100-200kB an hour even the slowest internet can handle that.
-LWD is giving up control of the technology. I would hope they had learned with Realm Works. They wrote all their code to work on a code base written by another company who then upgraded and stoped support for several things that RW required. The issue put LWD in a serious hole and there is no guarantee that the rug won’t be pulled out from under them again.
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This is a cycle you can't get away from really. Look at them recently porting to HLC to 64bits, things change and need to be upgraded.
-In the USA it is believed that over a third of the population has no high speed connection within 25 miles of them (the communications companies claim less than 10% while some research companies are claiming as high as 50%). By placing your product as online only you cut the potential number of customers and will, in the long run, make far less profit.
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Not really, don't need high speed for this, 100-200kb/hr not an issue for low speed bandwidth, plus I doubt your figure is accurate according to the FCC:
As of year-end 2016, 92.3% of all Americans have access to fixed terrestrial broadband at speeds of 25 Mbps/3 Mbps, up from 89.4% in 2014 and 81.2% in 2012.
-The customer is losing all control of THEIR data. My characters, my story lines, my plot hooks are mine to control and use. By placing them online only I am now a hostage of some company. I can hope that they won’t sell my ideas to someone else. I can hope they don’t hold my data hostage for who knows what. Then, what happens when they go out of business
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LJ answered this, but I'll give you a tin foil hat for effort.
 
Interesting discussion of service versus product. Service is a distribution of products but in itself is consider a product. It all comes down to semantics if you consider something a service.

True working as a JS developer, cross browser support is just freaking wonderful at times and yes updates to browser can break functionality but a real developer has access to canary builds of the browser to test with. Also most cross browser problems have well distributed polyfills that solve them already and if you stay with basic HTML 5 specs you can make a web application that runs very consistently and as bug free as any desktop application.

So for me whether a subscription based service has any value is in what it provides for its payment options. I will probably not use HLO because to me the subscription model seems broken. What do I mean by that? Netflix I pay a single price for and receive the ability to view movies. I don't have to pay more (price increases in services beyond my simple scope here) when they add new products or videos. Therefore there is value in my continued subscription in that I get new things to watch or do.

HLO seems to want you to pay for each product and license. So if I order SR6 but want to also add Pathfinder, I have to pay again above and beyond the subscription price. So my subscription price only has the value for updates to the web app and simple core rules updates. I assume that even new source books like in classic require more additional payments above and beyond the subscription price. This just does not add up to value for me considering what I am seeing as the subscription price of $35... (maybe that is just the up front price for the products plus subscriptions and the actual subscription price is lower which may change my opinion some). If Netflix charged me $15 a month and $10 every month to add new movies, I would not pay the $25 and definitely would not pay the $15 to just keep access to old movies.

The other issue I have with online is that where I play, we don't have access to reliable WIFI. So I cannot use the product during actual play so any features based around that would be of limited value to me. I would assume I can print a character sheet (or save it to PDF) to play off line so that would not be the worst deal breaker... but local applications like Chummer allowed me to update and work with my character as I was playing... It would be cool if they could create a react native port of the online services to handle gameplay features offline on a tablet from a character generated online and saved to say an iPad... much like they did for Pathfinder (loved that iPad app which is one of the reasons I loved supporting them with the classic app when I was playing pathfinder).
 
sanshou said:
HLO seems to want you to pay for each product and license. So if I order SR6 but want to also add Pathfinder, I have to pay again above and beyond the subscription price. So my subscription price only has the value for updates to the web app and simple core rules updates. I assume that even new source books like in classic require more additional payments above and beyond the subscription price. This just does not add up to value for me considering what I am seeing as the subscription price of $35... (maybe that is just the up front price for the products plus subscriptions and the actual subscription price is lower which may change my opinion some). If Netflix charged me $15 a month and $10 every month to add new movies, I would not pay the $25 and definitely would not pay the $15 to just keep access to old movies.

.
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The subscription price for HLO is ~$2 a month. Not bank breaking and it's to pay to keep the servers up. I highly doubt that it is intended to be a profit center. They also need to pay Paizo the licensing fee for each item sold too.

It sounds like from other posts that LWD is looking at providing a subscription that gives you access to content, without paying for each item. Though this I am sure will be more in line with netflix pricing.
 
Any way people can get beta access to the Shadowrun chargen for Hero Lab Online? Already paid for Pathfinder 2e and Starfinder, would love to provide feedback on the Shadowrun implementation.
 
markelphoenix said:
Any way people can get beta access to the Shadowrun chargen for Hero Lab Online? Already paid for Pathfinder 2e and Starfinder, would love to provide feedback on the Shadowrun implementation.
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I second this. I've been part of the Beta of PF2 and provide bug reports for HLC and HLO whenever I find them.
 
For me personally, I'd much rather have Shadowrun 6e in Classic. I'm a true RPG nerd, I make characters for fun even when I don't have a game... That said I've only made what 5 characters for Pathfinder 2. Why? Because Herolab Online is slow and overly finicky. I want to *love* Herolab Online, but it needs some design love. I'm afraid Shadowrun will really highlight the problems with the Online environment. If Pathfinder is slow will Shadowrun (arguably a much more complex system) lock it up all together? Good luck guys, I hope you prove me wrong...
 
Since this thread has been idle since august, and there hasn't been a followup newsletter -- is there any word on SR6? I'm due to pick a system for the next campaign shortly, and access to this will affect whether or not SR6 is on the table for our group. :) Thanks!
 
SR6 will not be offered in HLC. It will be available in HL Online but it will be late this year or early next year before it happens. If you want news on SE6 then watch the HLO forums, not these
 
So do I understand this correctly:

- For HLO I need to pay a monthly subscription fee
- I still need to buy the SR6 package
- I still need to buy all the supplement packages when they come out
- I need to be online to use it, the moment I don't have internet (at say a convention or in the basement) I can't use it anymore

I could get behind a subscription model if it gave me access to all the content, but if I have to buy the content seperately anyway, than that feels like you're charging me twice for the stuff.
 
Quatar said:
So do I understand this correctly:

- For HLO I need to pay a monthly subscription fee
- I still need to buy the SR6 package
- I still need to buy all the supplement packages when they come out
- I need to be online to use it, the moment I don't have internet (at say a convention or in the basement) I can't use it anymore

I could get behind a subscription model if it gave me access to all the content, but if I have to buy the content seperately anyway, than that feels like you're charging me twice for the stuff.
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It's not a subscription it is a server access fee of $2/month, and they haven't even started charging it yet.
 
You’re tight Quatar, I don’t see any value in where HLO is going. If it were a service then maybe but Hero Lab is a product and I should be able to use anywhere I want without paying additional fees
 
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