--- Rob Bowes <rob@wolflair.com> wrote:
> Let me see if I've got this straight. In the case of the Naga
> Shugenja and
> Shashakar, the "equivalence" of the two cards can be ignored.
> However, in
> the case of the Crab Clan Ancestral Sword and Ancestral Sword of
> the Crab
> Clan, the equivalence of the two cards DOES need to be
> distinguished
> because they are BOTH designated as "unique". Is that right?
Kinda-sorta. The main point is that you have to know the experienced
rules.
The Shashakar in AoD is badly done, and they changed it in the Jade
reprint. There, the entire reference to uniqueness and the NS is
changed to a simple trait: "Experienced Naga Shugenja". It should
behave as every other card that has text like that.
The basic rules are: you can put in a deck 3 of each card, and 1 of
each unique. EXCEPT that for this the name of the card is not the
only consideration.
An example might be helpful:
"Ann" is not unique. "Bob" is unique. You can have 3 Anns and only
one Bob. Simple.
But L5R is a storyline game. In a story, characters evolve. Other
just change circumstances.
For example, Ann gets an experienced version. This card is also
called Ann, but you can put both anns in a deck because the second
one has "experienced" in her trait box. So you can put 4 of them. Bob
does NOT get experienced. Instead, he simply changed jobs. He was
hired by a Crab lord, and is now "Hida Bob". He is reprinted with
that name, and no experienced trait. Instead, he gets "this card
counts as Bob for uniqueness".
Now say the same happens to Ann a few expansions later, but by this
time she's much better trained already. She becomes Hida Ann, and
gets another experienced level. She gets "experienced 2". BUT a snag;
with just that text, she would no longer be able to "evolve" (think
the Pokemon game) from a previous Ann in play. So to be able to do
that, she has to become "experienced 2 Ann".
Shashakar is Ann without the intermediate level. He was NS, and
became Shashakar, experienced NS. the AoD text was an earlier
unsuccessful attempt to word the above intention.
The Swords are ANOTHER case. The intent with the swords is purely to
limit deck construction. They are separate items, not an evolution.
You simply can't play with both, because in the story the Celestials
were a replacement of the Ancestrals after an angry god took those
from us.
Make more sense?
Abilio
> Assuming I'm on track here, I don't understand how only ONE card
> being
> unique makes the pair exempt from deck construction equivalence. I
> understand the interpretation if BOTH cards are unique or NEITHER
> is
> unique, but I'm confused about only ONE being unique.
>
> Help?!?!
>
> -Rob
>
> At 03:05 AM 9/3/2003 -0700, you wrote:
> >OK, it's like this. At the time AoD was shipped (the third
> >expansion), the Experienced trait was still only applied to
> >personalities with the same name. For example, Akido Kage has a
> >normal and experienced version. The "generic" Naga personalities
> in
> >Imperial (Shugenja and Warlord) both were done before Naga became
> a
> >faction, so when it came time to experience them, they went
> through a
> >process of "individualization". Thus becoming Shashakar and
> Shahadet.
> >The problem was, thought, that having "experienced" in the trait
> box
> >wouldn't help, because there was no previous version of them.
> >Therefore, they used that clunky trait to link the two
> personalities.
> >A few expansions later, as the number of experienced personalities
> >with name changes increased (Kage lost the family name, Hisa
> gained
> >it, Yasamura married out-of-clan, etc), this text became too
> >cumbersome, and a much more streamlined "Experienced Akodo Kage"
> >appeared, and the "counts as X for uniqueness" was gradually
> changed
> >to be used only in one type of cards: Cards that represented the
> same
> >THING, but had a different type (like Hida Kisada becoming a
> retainer
> >holding. He sure can't be overlayed over the old personality, but
> >having only the "experienced" trait would allow it, BUT it also
> >didn't make sense to have 2 Kisadas in play, one retired old mas
> as
> >holding and one as feisty young behemoth)
> >
> >I believe Shashakar got the new, simpler "Experienced Naga
> Shugenja"
> >in Jade Edition, where he was reprinted. Anyway, the bottom line
> is
> >that in his old card, that "counts as NS for uniqueness" means
> only
> >that he can be overlaid on it (putting him in play as an
> "evolution"
> >of the NS). The rule would only be limiting in deck construction
> if
> >BOTH cards were unique and had the same experienced level, because
> >only then would you be limited to just one per deck.
> >
> >Was that understandable? I tend to ramble a bit.
> >
> >Abilio
> >
> >--- Rob Bowes <rob@wolflair.com> wrote:
> > > The Shashakar from Anvil of Despair says "This card is
> considered
> > > to be the
> > > Naga Shugenja for uniqueness". Based on that text and my
> pitiful
> > > LACK of
> > > knowledge of all things L5R, it sure sounded to me that
> Shashakar
> > > and the
> > > Naga Shugenja must be treated as the same card for uniqueness
> > > purposes
> > > during deck construction. That's what CV is currently doing.
> > >
> > > If I'm messed up on this, please explain. Remember, I'm largely
> > > clueless
> > > about L5R, although I'm doing my best to learn. Things you
> might
> > > consider
> > > obvious as a veteran player will be anything BUT obvious to me,
> so
> > > please
> > > forgive the ignorance. :-)
> > >
> > > Thanks, Rob
> > >
> > > At 12:45 AM 9/3/2003 -0700, you wrote:
> > > >Why would Cardvault care if Shashakar is the NG? All it says
> is
> > > >"Experienced Naga Shugenja", and this should absolutely not
> matter
> > > >for deck construction purposes. All it matters for is that
> > > Shashakar
> > > >can overlay the NS when it enters play, nothing more. Why is
> this
> > > >rule here? I may be missing something, but I can't see it.
>
>
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Rob Bowes (rob@wolflair.com) (559)
> 658-6995
> Lone Wolf Development
>
www.wolflair.com
>
>
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