Ogre Kingoms Update

Greetings Lone Wolf .


Thank you for building a product that has saved me countless hours building armies through the years. I wanted to ask if you had a ETA on a data file for the 8th Edition Ogre Kingdoms update?


Thank you in Advance.

Hi there, pious,
Just a quick question; when you found this sub-forum and read the line "PLEASE DO NOT USE THIS FORUM TO DISCUSS / REPORT BUGS IN DATA FILES." what exactly did you think it meant in regards to your specific request?
Because I get the impression, from the number of posts (not just yours) reporting bugs in, or otherwise discussing, datafiles here that it isn't as clear as it could be.

Mr. Rose I guess as you state the remark is not clear...I didn't see anything wrong with Pious' inquiry where he posted. The statement "PLEASE DO NOT USE THIS FORUM TO DISCUSS / REPORT BUGS IN DATA FILES." to me this statement would mean do not discuss bugs in data files here nor report bugs in data files here. I take it this is the incorrect way to interpret the statement.

pious said:

Greetings Lone Wolf .


Thank you for building a product that has saved me countless hours building armies through the years. I wanted to ask if you had a ETA on a data file for the 8th Edition Ogre Kingdoms update?


Thank you in Advance.

Click to expand...

You will have your answer here.

Regards,
Glirhuin

As far as I know, it's meant to convey "don't talk about datafiles here at all; use the dedicated section(s) below:" but then I didn't set up the forums so I could be completely wrong.

Well you have to admit that Pious didn't initially do something wrong following the guidelines in that subforum so no need for a "smack in the face" remark.

What I do see alot here on this forum is that some 'senior members' do like to call down on new people (some long time users of this Army Builder) alot for not following some guideline.

The fact is however that we're talking about paying costumers here, not some kid who's raging on Warseer about 'insert X army' being OP.
Paying costumers who, after putting down some money each and every year, ask about something regarding a part of the product.

I understood that Lone Wolf is working with people who make the datafiles all free of charge and I applaud those people for doing that, but don't forget that in the end the guys posting here gave said compagny money for this product and expect some service attached to it.

I myself have been working over 15years in sales and I could never get away with something along the lines of "I'm sorry but your new Mercedes will be here when our people have time and feel like to work to get it done, they do have other things to do you know, downside of working with people who don't get payed, sorry! No need to ask for a refund either, it's done when it's done!"
which is basicly what your say when you type out:
"you'll get the datafiles for your new/revised army when they're done and certainly no sooner then 4 weeks and don't dare ask about them either!"

Don't get me wrong personally I can work up some patience, just saying that in this situation with paying clients you should expect some questions like this asked.
So atleast try to be civil and friendly and redirect this person to the correct place or answer him instead of thinking that you're more then him for not knowing something.

Greetings
Aza

Keep in mind that Wolflair employees rarely post in forums that do not deal with a technical issue of a Wolflair product such as this one.

I agree that your statement would most certainly be correct if the post was coming from a Wolflair employee but it is not (afaik).

It might be a bit harsh and slightly over the top but by no means is it extreme, especially since most of the posts in the forums are "When are the data files being released?" type. This issue has been answered so many times ad nauseum and even has a dedicated thread that covers every book and its data file release date. I understand how the VOLUNTEERS who make the data files could get a little upset by the constant stream of "when are data files..." posts when it has been clearly posted and all it takes is a bit of reading to answer the question yourself. Ignorance is not an excuse, educate yourself.

See, all you have to do is ask; the forum subtitle has been changed to something hopefully less ambiguous.

Sadly, when I read this thread I also had to agree in some respects to Aza. (I too am waiting with baited breath for the Ogre Kingdoms update, like the OP.)

I understand this is, to a point, volunteer work. On the other hand, we are paying customers.
I've been in customer service and sales for as long as Aza, and probably one of the first principles of being a service provider is that any customer who has already paid for something expects quality goods and services in return for their money.

All that aside, the frustrating part for any customer who has forked out the cash, and has nothing in their hands to show for it is the "not knowing".


Simply put, why not have a regular part of the forum, or website to tell those customers how the progress is going? It would stop the constant questions, keep the customer informed, and only takes about fifteen minutes every second or third day to keep everyone informed.

I really have no response other than to tell you that if you READ the Warhammer Fantasy 8th edition forums the answer will be revealed to you. It really isn't hard to miss as it is stickied and has PLEASE READ right in the thread topic.

Here's a hint for the non-Einsteins out there...http://forums.wolflair.com/showthread.php?t=13887

After reading this do you really need an update on how the files are going?

Also since you are "paying customers" you should really email or submit a complaint to WOLFLAIR about how data files are handled and see where that gets you. I'm sure WOLFLAIR would love to explain to you the intricacies of the litigation department over at GW which is exactly why data files are handled the way they are handled.

Once again,
Ignorance is not an excuse, educate (READ) yourself.

Yobtar said:

I really have no response other than to tell you that if you READ the Warhammer Fantasy 8th edition forums the answer will be revealed to you. It really isn't hard to miss as it is stickied and has PLEASE READ right in the thread topic.

Here's a hint for the non-Einsteins out there...http://forums.wolflair.com/showthread.php?t=13887

After reading this do you really need an update on how the files are going?

Also since you are "paying customers" you should really email or submit a complaint to WOLFLAIR about how data files are handled and see where that gets you. I'm sure WOLFLAIR would love to explain to you the intricacies of the litigation department over at GW which is exactly why data files are handled the way they are handled.

Once again,
Ignorance is not an excuse, educate (READ) yourself.

Click to expand...

Once again, this is an immediate example of what Aza and I are referring to.

There is absolutely NO reason for anyone to talk like this.

This sort of conduct is unbecoming of any forum related to a business:
a) One guy misses an announcement regarding the way data files are handled, and a senior member jumps on him;
b) When two people raise the question of why the issue was handled that way, we now see two senior members treating clients of the business that runs the forum like spoiled children would treat a complete stranger.

(If I said something like this to anyone who walked into my store, within a day my regional manager would be listening to me attempting to salvage my job.)

Besides the fact that I already know how long it takes for data files (I have already read that post before), the core of my reply was directed at two things. One of which was the complete lack of civility in the first reply, and secondly the lack of information flow to the customer - neither of which were adequately addressed.

I proposed a solution which, if implemented properly, would draw these questions out like a magnet, but instead you chose to shoot it down because "this is the way it is always done".

Not good enough - the forum users here deserve far better treatment by senior members than they are currently getting.

If y'all could stop being rude to each other for a moment...

I just contacted the author of the Warhammer data files (which you too can do, by selecting "Contact Data File Author..." from the Help menu in Army Builder) and he says the updated files should be ready by the end of the weekend.

P.S. The data files are not "to a point" done by volunteers; they are entirely done by volunteers. Or in this specific case volunteer. LWD have no involvement at all, beyond providing file hosting, and indeed cannot have any for legal reasons.

P.P.S. As a follow up to my original question to pious, I have asked that the forums be rearranged and the AB forum subtitle be changed. I for one hope this reduces confusion in future.

Well done Mr Rose that made my day im now looking forewardto the end of the weekend, good job by the way to the author without your hard work my warhammer experiance would be so much less thanks for all your effort`

I think the issue is less in regards to whether someone are 'paying customers' and more to the point of simple courtesy imo.

Wow, bit heated in here. Just to let you know, I have got the files pretty much done. I'm just clearing up a few last minute bugs. I intended to get them out yesterday, but fell a bit behind.

And, and I don't mean to sound rude here, I do these files as a hobby. I don't get paid, I am not in the employ of Lone Wolf, and I pay to use this program just as you do. If I am a bit late, I sincerely apologise, but sometimes I hit a 'wall' and just need to take a few days away from files to get a fresh perspective.

I've uploaded the file! There are a couple of issues, nothing that stops the files being used. Maneaters 'Been There, Done That' rule doesn't give error if same rule picked twice, and Mornfang Cavalry lets you choose more than one magic banner. Pretty simple fixes, but I just don't have any more spare time today, and figured you wouyld rather get it with these bugs than wait til I can get round to it (hopefully tomorrow, but no promises).

As soon as these are fixed, I will re-upload file.

Thanks for your patience!