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3.8 bugs

W

Woodclaw

Well-known member
I've just stumbled upon two old bugs:

  1. When I build a Sidekick/Minion for a NPC the system simply ports the Main hero PL to the Minion rather than calcullate its own PL
  2. When I use the Device as Equipment option to build a armor (i.e. anything with the Protection power) it adds to Toughness even if I had active power that already increase it (like Force field)
 
This has been in for a few versions, but I keep forgetting to report it. When doing a Status block Summary BBCode output on a Vehicle, The Defense line has an uncapped Bold marker such as the following:

Vehicle: Autogyro

Power Level: 10; Equipment Points Spent: 12

STR: +10 (30)

Toughness: +9

Powers:
Flight 5 (Speed: 250 mph, 2200 ft./rnd)

Defense: -2, Size: Huge

Totals: Abilities 0 + Skills 0 (0 ranks) + Feats 0 + Features 0 + Powers 10 + Combat 2 + Saves 0 + Drawbacks 0 = 12


Created With Hero Lab® - try it for free at http://www.wolflair.com!
 
Woodclaw:

1) Isn't this how it should work? Shouldn't the sidekick be at the main hero's PL? It would be a little weird for a sidekick to be *more powerful* than his boss...

2) I just checked, and a Force Field doesn't stack with Protection added by a "device as equipment". Can you describe the situation you're seeing where it seems to be behaving incorrectly?

Thanks for the other bug reports, I've added them to the list.
 
I've got the specific items noted down on my laptop, which unfortunately is not able to access the Internet where I am right now, but there are a couple of items that don't have Mecha and Manga set as their source, meaning they show up when you don't have that book checked. ^_^ Most of them, the blame can be placed on me. I'll see if I can't hook up the laptop tonight to get that updated.

Feats
Twin Weapon Strike
Spirit Empathy
Menagerie (which still doesn't operate quite right in terms of being something you're supposed to add to Pet to allow multiple pets. *wrinkles nose* Same thing with the feat to make the pet Heroic... I couldn't figure out how to wrangle the rules)
Pet (and while this is outside of the source feat setup, one probably shouldn't have the various Pet feats unless the character has Pet or Menagerie)

Equipment
Suan Tou Fung (not it! :))

Power Options
The Acute and Accurate Chi options show up under Super-Senses instead of under Chi Sense. Chi Sense also picks up a few too many modifiers from Super-Senses. I should have just bit the bullet and duplicated the entries for things like Precognition and Postcognition linked to Chi. Your choice.
 
Colen said:
Woodclaw:

1) Isn't this how it should work? Shouldn't the sidekick be at the main hero's PL? It would be a little weird for a sidekick to be *more powerful* than his boss...
Click to expand...
I think he's more describing how, for most NPCs, PL is descriptive, not proscriptive. So, if he creates a Sidekick whose only attack is a +8 to hit Blast 8, it should be described as PL 8 whether or not the PC is PL 10 or however.

And I know I saw the protection stacking somehow... it's not happening now.
 
Colen said:
1) Isn't this how it should work? Shouldn't the sidekick be at the main hero's PL? It would be a little weird for a sidekick to be *more powerful* than his boss...
Click to expand...

As far as I know it shouldn't the sidekick/minions are individual characters with their own PL. Plus there are exaple of sidekicks more powerful of the main hero (think of Jakeem Thunder and Yz).

Colen said:
2) I just checked, and a Force Field doesn't stack with Protection added by a "device as equipment". Can you describe the situation you're seeing where it seems to be behaving incorrectly?
Click to expand...

Ok, I've just checked myself and it happens only with Enhanced Constitution and Protection.
 
Woodclaw said:
As far as I know it shouldn't the sidekick/minions are individual characters with their own PL. Plus there are exaple of sidekicks more powerful of the main hero (think of Jakeem Thunder and Yz).
Click to expand...
Ah... doesn't the book mention that and say that it should be built the other way around generally, with the "sidekick" as the player and the "summoner" as the low PL sidekick?

Nevertheless, it would be nice if the output on sidekicks and minions showed them as the PL that they are rather than the "upper limit PL".
 
Duggan said:
Ah... doesn't the book mention that and say that it should be built the other way around generally, with the "sidekick" as the player and the "summoner" as the low PL sidekick?

Nevertheless, it would be nice if the output on sidekicks and minions showed them as the PL that they are rather than the "upper limit PL".
Click to expand...

Actually no, the core rules states that usually the most powerful creature is the main character, but on the Mastermind Manual there is an option called Reverse Sidekick that allows for a Sidekick/minion to be more powerful.

Anyway I think that the problem here is that all of us are correct. Sidekicks (except if the above rule is applied) are generally limited to the same PL of the main hero, but in NPC case they should display their own PL if they are less powerful (or more powerful).
 
I have been noticing some odd 'dropped' numbers in tradeoffs. I have a paragon with +16 Enhanced Strength, but only 25 Strength total, and she's only getting a Strength Bonus of +7 instead of +8. Her Attack tradeoff (+2, total melee attack of 12) should leave her with room for a +8 damage from her strength... so this is clearly a bug.

This character worked fine before the last couple of updates... I'm not sure which update caused the issue, but I'm at 3.8 now.

She's also got a Dexterity of 22, but it's showing as 22/21 and only carrying +5 down to my Reflex save and skills... what's going on?
 
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@ShadowChaser: ^_^ I am, of course, no one official (nor anyone of any consequence) but could you post your portfolio file, or at least the stat block, so we might look at it?

@Colen: I've also noticed a few other minor things. The Japanese Language is being spelled "Japnese" (although thank you for adding the other languages!). Minor, minor, cosmetic enhancement, but currently Nullifying Field of Nullify incorporates the range increases of Progression, Increase Area, but the actual Area Attacks are not. I was able to implement the fixes on my side readily enough (unfortunately, on the laptop I won't be able to connect to the Internet until Friday evening). Would it be possible to do the same on your side? If it would help, I can submit a .user file on Friday and/or post the exact steps to fix it here to save you the trouble of figuring it up on your own.
 
Duggan said:
@ShadowChaser: ^_^ I am, of course, no one official (nor anyone of any consequence) but could you post your portfolio file, or at least the stat block, so we might look at it?

@Colen: I've also noticed a few other minor things. The Japanese Language is being spelled "Japnese" (although thank you for adding the other languages!). Minor, minor, cosmetic enhancement, but currently Nullifying Field of Nullify incorporates the range increases of Progression, Increase Area, but the actual Area Attacks are not. I was able to implement the fixes on my side readily enough (unfortunately, on the laptop I won't be able to connect to the Internet until Friday evening). Would it be possible to do the same on your side? If it would help, I can submit a .user file on Friday and/or post the exact steps to fix it here to save you the trouble of figuring it up on your own.
Click to expand...

Okay, I can't seem to get the problem to show up in the stat block (which is mercifully free of the errors), but when viewing the character in the program, it is still gorked. I wouldn't mind sharing the file, what would be a good method of sharing it? I could email, or if there's a way to post it (I'm not very good with web stuff) I'd be happy to take your advice on how to do so.
 
The easiest way is to ZIP up a copy of the portfolio file and attach it to a message here. There's a paperclip icon on the posting (you may have to go into Advanced instead of Basic posting to see it) that you can click to attach files.
 
When the Power Drawback: Action (Power Switch) is applied to an Array....it isn't changing the Action on the Array from the normal "Free" to "Move", "Standard" or "Full" onscreen nor on the printed character sheet.

It IS lowering the cost. So it's working half-way. :p

If you want to say "well, an Array doesn't really have an action" that's true but I'm sure I'm not alone in thinking the normal (Free - Personal) meant (Slot change time - Range)

Now was that Range supposed to be the maximum distance or the range increment value?....sorry, couldn't resist. :p

Nigel Fogg, aka The Wayfarer.
 
Okay, here's the character with the glitchy stats being displayed...

I've rebuilt the character with different stats and it didn't glitch on me, but every time I load this, I get the weird issues with numbers being dropped or displaying incorrectly as I mentioned earlier.
 

Attachments

It's a minor thing, but a discussion on the ATT led me to re-read the rules and on page 148 of the Core book, Constructs (and possibly only Constructs) having a 0 in Intelligence and Charisma are immune to mental effects and interaction skills and automatically fail checks related to those stats. They are still vulnerable to Will saves that are not Mental (modeling some kind of override by magic or technology perhaps) and one probably should be able to buy up the Will saves correspondingly (probably from -5 for the 0 ability score) to represent redundant sub-routines, TEMPEST hardening, and such.

There's a somewhat relevant discussion here as an ORQ answered by Steve Kenson. As per page 32 of the Core book, it looks like the Immunity to Mental effects happens with 0 Intelligence or 0 Wisdom, and Immunity to Interaction happens with 0 in Wisdom, Intelligence, or Charisma.

Eh, like I said, it's kind of a corner case... but I thought it worth mentioning.
 
Shadowchaser said:
Okay, here's the character with the glitchy stats being displayed...

I've rebuilt the character with different stats and it didn't glitch on me, but every time I load this, I get the weird issues with numbers being dropped or displaying incorrectly as I mentioned earlier.
Click to expand...

Miracle Girl is set to "Winded" on the in-play tab, which gives you a -1 to strength and dexterity. :)
 
Colen said:
Miracle Girl is set to "Winded" on the in-play tab, which gives you a -1 to strength and dexterity. :)
Click to expand...
^_^ Speaking of, is there any easy way to quickly clear a group or an individual of their conditions without having to step into the Health and click off every condition? I occasionally run battles through the tactical console and it can get annoying getting everyone back in place.

:) And I still think it would be neat to be able to right click on one of the numbers like a skill bonus, save bonus, or attack bonus, and quickly roll a d20 against that number in the Tactical Console. It would save several steps in running combats.
 
I can definitely do a "reset all conditions" button for an individual; that's a great idea. Doing it for a group is more problematic, and might have to wait until we make some other encounter-related changes later.

Unfortunately there's no way for us to allow right-clicking on a skill bonus on the tactical console right now. Would it still be useful if you had to go to the Skills tab (or maybe just the skills summary panel) for a hero to do it?
 
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