Realm Works Status Update

I'm not completely sure. I think you upload your Realm to the repository, which is separate from backing up your data, then download as a new (copy) Realm, which is a blank slate. I think, anyway.

So I think you can use the original Realm to run a game in.

Zaphod Beebledoc said:

I'm not completely sure. I think you upload your Realm to the repository, which is separate from backing up your data, then download as a new (copy) Realm, which is a blank slate. I think, anyway.

So I think you can use the original Realm to run a game in.

Click to expand...

Maybe I'm not understanding what the repository is/will be.

Rob, that helps immensely and is the answer I was looking for to my original question. Thanks!

EightBitz said:

Just for the benefit of my understanding, you would do that (as I think I've read before elsewhere in this forum) by creating and populating your realm as a base realm and never running any games from it. You would then copy it, and use the copy to run any single game instance.

Is that correct?

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That is how I understand it, yes. I am basing my statements of the limited description given during the kickstarter and in updates.

The description you read elsewhere may have been mine; I've been talking about this in other threads (like the one on using published content).

Zaphod Beebledoc said:

I'm not completely sure. I think you upload your Realm to the repository, which is separate from backing up your data, then download as a new (copy) Realm, which is a blank slate. I think, anyway.

So I think you can use the original Realm to run a game in.

Click to expand...

Now we're getting into areas where there is not much definite information, but I don't think this is right based on Rob's answer to another question about the data usage (see the thread on cloud usage indicators).

The answer there was that a "copy" would mostly contain "pointers" linking back to the original Realm. If you don't change something in the new (copy) Realm, the data is not stored in the new Realm. If you do make a change, then that change is stored in the new Realm and replaces the information for that game. For example, perhaps the Individual listed as leader of a group is replaced as your game plays out; in the original Realm it was "Michael Lord".. now, in that new Realm, it has been changed to "Cynthia Masters". Your original Realm is unchanged, but in your new Realm, the change made there replaces original information.

As far as uploading.. that sounds more like the Marketplace, to make it available to others, but that's really not something that has been discussed that I know of. I expect details like that will be revealed more as the Marketplace and Repository get closer to release.

Speculation: The Repository does seem to be something separate from simply having the Realm in your database. Behind the scenes, that might be as simple as setting a flag that marks it as available for re-use, though. Just like the Story and World Almanacs are just two views into the same data pool, putting something into the Repository may not need to be a very big task for the application.

EightBitz said:

Just for the benefit of my understanding, you would do that (as I think I've read before elsewhere in this forum) by creating and populating your realm as a base realm and never running any games from it. You would then copy it, and use the copy to run any single game instance.

Is that correct?

Click to expand...

Exactly. Anything you've revealed in the "master" realm would be revealed in the derived realm. Why? Because there are lots of cases where you want to pre-reveal snippets so that they are instantly visible the moment you reveal the topic. In addition, there is usually going to be lots of material that you just want visible from the start for players, such as numerous articles about game mechanics for your game and story topics that are "backstory" the PCs already know when the game begins.

Silveras said:

The answer there was that a "copy" would mostly contain "pointers" linking back to the original Realm. If you don't change something in the new (copy) Realm, the data is not stored in the new Realm. If you do make a change, then that change is stored in the new Realm and replaces the information for that game. For example, perhaps the Individual listed as leader of a group is replaced as your game plays out; in the original Realm it was "Michael Lord".. now, in that new Realm, it has been changed to "Cynthia Masters". Your original Realm is unchanged, but in your new Realm, the change made there replaces original information.

Click to expand...

This is exactly correct. Everything in the derived realm would start out as a reference to the master realm. The moment you change something in the derived realm, that information is forked off and modified locally to the derived realm, effectively eliminating the "pointer" and replacing it with new information.

Excellent. I've already thrown money at you. Here, please let me throw more money at you!

I see "Content Market" is still pending for later in 2014, and it would appear a deal is still not yet signed with Paizo.

I will SO ABSOLUTELY spank on this issue during Paizo Con. I really hope this gets announced. Earlier is better than later.

Silveras said:

I, for one, disagree that it "will never be even remotely an important part of Realm Works".. on the contrary, I think it will be one of the most important parts. Of course, that just goes to show how opinions and perspectives differ.

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You're right. It will be THE most important part.

Let me throw you a few examples here:

1) You've decided to play Pathfinder with your friends. Short notice, you plan a night of character building, but everyone's already done...you're not ready... wait! To the LW webstore! LOOK! We be Goblins! is on sale for immediate download for $0.99!!! PERFECT! Buy, Load, print sample characters from HL (already loaded in RW). Play.

2) You're a new GM, who finds it hard to keep track of everything in the damned universe all at once. You and your players decided to play The Mummy's Mask AP. You had no idea what you were in for. You go to the LW Webstore and....The Mummy's Mask AP in RW is available for the low low price of $19.99!!! (or $4.99 per chapter) Well, you have the books, but you KNOW RW makes running a game easier. Let's do it!

3) You're looking to run an online game with your old high school DnD group. You're running online, using Skype and RW (with new improved Player Edition and Webview!!!) you use Roll20 for the combat interface, and RW for the info delivery system. You're not sure how much time you'll all have, or how hard it is getting together, so everyone votes for 4 hour games whenever they can, so no AP's, short games only.... Hey, Pathfinder Society has just the modules for you! Go to LW webstore, decide on PFS Season 5, select an appropriate module for the low, low price of $0.49, and you're off to the races! (or, conversely, a season pass for $9.99).

4) You use RW. You run games. You play by your own rules! You don't need no stinkin' modules! You work and write your butt off for a great database. You share it on the forums for fun (Or, better yet, sell it on the LW community Market, for 25 cents, of which you get 10). Profit for your time!

The ability to buy adventures, worlds, scenarios, etc... in RW is not only a CORE component of what we got going on here, but it's the whole business model. You didn't think that LW would make all their money from $50 sales and $5/mo Sync services did you?

These examples are all just for Pathfinder. Now, imagine adding Shadowrun, WoD, M&M, DnD 4th/5th edition.

Living Greyhawk, Shadowrun Missions, Pathfinder Society, The Camarilla.... These are sources of INFINATE storylines to be loaded into RW. These go beyond the modules/AP's/Campaigns/World Events.

Sell the series' (PFS Scenarios) for $0.50, the Modules for $0.99-$9.99 (depending on the size/length). Sell Adventure Paths and huge storylines (Gehenna from oWoD, RotRL, Temple of Elemental Evil, etc....) for $9.99-$24.99.

I know I'll be in for $200 minimum by the end of the year (I run PFS, RotRL, and SR Missions games, so I'll be using A LOT of RW products).

DO IT!

Important? Sure. Most important? Not for me. Everyones opinion will differ.

mirtos said:

Important? Sure. Most important? Not for me. Everyones opinion will differ.

Click to expand...

As a user, the ability to buy an adventure or module or premade world might not be the most important to you, sure.

But as a product? It's essential for long-term support and development.

Would Hero Labs be anywhere near as polished or as good a product as it is today if either all sourcebooks were free, or if they didn't add any support beyond the basic system? Nope, not in the slightest. It would probably be a dead product. How many people use the WoD for HL? Few if any of the gamers I know use HL for WoD. Why? Lack of support. White Wolf/CCP/Onyx Path/whoever doesn't seem to want to work with LW to support the product. Else, we'd see all the clan books, convention books, other systems (werewolf, mage, etc...) available for purchase. Hell, we'd probably have V20, W20, and when M20 comes out, HL would probably be launching support for that the day of release. But, because it's not supported, it's not popular.

And it's not popular DESPITE the fact that you can build your own data files. Hell, I built EVERY book for Requiem when WoD came out for HL for my personal use in the Cam. It took a month. In the end, I lost the data files due to a HDD crash/dead computer. But I was the ONLY one with all those files back then (about 2 months after WoD was released). It was popular in my troupe, because I supported the system (as the head ST). But without the ability to upgrade the package, WoD essentially died as a HL product (yes, people still use it, but if the Camarilla was supported as well as Missions or PFS, it would be a MAJOR source of income for LW).

My point isn't that every user should be dying to buy product off the LW webstore for RW. My point is that RW NEEDS the ability to SELL modules and APs for continued and long term use.

I'm coming at this from both a product management and software development background, for what its worth.

I do see your point. And thats why I said its important. However, to say its the most important, is another thing entirely. There are many features that are more important as a whole to make a succesful product than the marketplace/collaboration. Without them, it doesnt matter if the marketplace is complete.

Your Herolab example is interesting. The d20 product is a perfect example of a succesful line that only provides the basic system. I dont know the full history of the product, but I know many many people that use the D20 product. And its nice that there are companies and books out there that support it. Its even better that there is a community creating files that support it. But WoTC ignored the product (I imagine, which is why only the core books are part of the product). LoneWolf makes money only off of the basic "free" books for the d20 product, and while I know it doesnt get the full support the Pathfinder one does (which i understand, btw), its not ignored either.

I think buying and selling modules on the marketplace, and sharing them will be incredibly beneficial to the product as a whole, but there are other core features that are more important.

Then again, I could be wrong too.

@Pollution: Lawd have mercy!

Yup, #2 is me. Please oh please I so badly want to throw money at Wolflair.