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-   -   Brawler: Off-Hand Unarmed Strike Bug? (http://forums.wolflair.com/showthread.php?t=59683)

Tickkid December 2nd, 2017 08:18 PM

Brawler: Off-Hand Unarmed Strike Bug?
 
I searched for this a bit using the search, but I feel like someone has likely mentioned this, but I want to make sure. I'm making a brawler, and setting their unarmed strike as both first and second hand equipped weapons. When it does that, it decreases the secondhand damage bonus, instead of setting it the same as per the Unarmed Strike ability.

Minous December 2nd, 2017 10:39 PM

Brawlers dont two weapon fight they flurry, flurry has separate rules, which is why you are seeing the TWF stats.

Tickkid December 3rd, 2017 07:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Minous (Post 259732)
Brawlers dont two weapon fight they flurry, flurry has separate rules, which is why you are seeing the TWF stats.

The description for the Brawlers Unarmed Strike ability says "A brawler applies her full Strength modifier (not half) on damage rolls for all her unarmed strikes." Unless I'm mistaken, the only time you'd normally apply only half damage on a damage roll would be the second hand of 2 weapon fighting. This looks to clearly state that you add your full Strength modifier on all unarmed strikes, including the offhand attack. (And just for a test, I put a different non unarmed strike as the first weapon just incase there is a using unarmed strike as two different weapons situation, and it still halves it)

Minous December 3rd, 2017 08:49 AM

It halves all off hand attacks unless you are flurrying. You dont actually get TWF unless you flurry, so you are getting the non-TWF penalties associated with using two weapons. If you read the full class discription, the flurry section expands and goes into detail for multiple attacks. In order to use the offhand you need to flurry, because you only count as having TWF when flurrying.

Tickkid December 3rd, 2017 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Minous (Post 259750)
It halves all off hand attacks unless you are flurrying. You dont actually get TWF unless you flurry, so you are getting the non-TWF penalties associated with using two weapons. If you read the full class discription, the flurry section expands and goes into detail for multiple attacks. In order to use the offhand you need to flurry, because you only count as having TWF when flurrying.

Damage is not affected by the two weapon fighting feat, only chance to hit. When you do two weapon fighting your off hand attack damage is cut in half, no matter if you have two weapon fighting feat or not. You don't need to use any feat or skill to use offhand, nor do you need to flurry, you just take max penalties. The bottom line is none of that changes the fact that a brawler doesn't have half damage on unarmed strikes, the offhand unarmed strike should be at full damage.

Tickkid December 3rd, 2017 12:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tickkid (Post 259766)
Damage is not affected by the two weapon fighting feat, only chance to hit. When you do two weapon fighting your off hand attack damage is cut in half, no matter if you have two weapon fighting feat or not. You don't need to use any feat or skill to use offhand, nor do you need to flurry, you just take max penalties. The bottom line is none of that changes the fact that a brawler doesn't have half damage on unarmed strikes, the offhand unarmed strike should be at full damage.

http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2urdy?Br...Unarmed-Strike

charlieluce December 3rd, 2017 01:56 PM

At this point you need to officially report it as a bug.

Tickkid December 3rd, 2017 02:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by charlieluce (Post 259769)
At this point you need to officially report it as a bug.

Got it, thanks for the direction. Will do so right now.

Maidhc O Casain December 7th, 2017 01:01 PM

It's not a bug.

For characters that use flurry w/ unarmed, there is no need to "arm" both hands. (Or either hand, IIRC). HeroLab handles them as separate things because flurrying is not done with a primary hand and an off hand. It's done with hands, elbows, knees, head, feet - pick your flavor.

You check the "Flurry" box on the "In Play" tab, and it adds the extra attack to the character.


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