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-   -   Need core races for NPCs (http://forums.wolflair.com/showthread.php?t=60596)

thistledown April 27th, 2018 12:00 PM

Need core races for NPCs
 
I'm not seeing any of the core races in the race list for NPC's. We do need NPCs besides monsters...

Joe April 27th, 2018 12:15 PM

Moved this to it's own thread.

ShadowChemosh April 27th, 2018 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thistledown (Post 265957)
I'm not seeing any of the core races in the race list for NPC's. We do need NPCs besides monsters...

See THIS thread for details. But a NPC is not built like a PC and you do not start with "race" to build a NPC monster. Regardless if you are trying to build a human solider you don't start with Human you start with type Humanoid and go from their.

thistledown April 27th, 2018 01:37 PM

But if you're listing every other monster for people to just open up and use, the core races should be there too.

ShadowChemosh April 27th, 2018 01:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thistledown (Post 265961)
But if you're listing every other monster for people to just open up and use, the core races should be there too.

If you know the page number in the Alien Archive to give LW this info please do. As no such info exists are you expecting LW to invent Paizo rules? :confused:

ShadowChemosh April 27th, 2018 01:47 PM

To add please don't provide the page numbers in the Core rule book for the human race. That is for a PC and can not be used to create/craft a NPC. :)

NPCs and Monsters in Starfinder use 100% of their own rules. Unless you want a really lopsided combat a DM can not craft a human solider using PC rules and throw it at the PCs. The combat will go on forever and be badly balanced.

With the above being the case and Alien Archive having no rules for "human" how can LW provide those in the tool?

thistledown April 27th, 2018 04:18 PM

I don't think we're on the same page. Right now, I do this:
Create new, select NPC as the type. Confirm add character.
Open it, go to character, go to race. I can pick a void hag, an urog, or any of the AA things, but I can't pick a human or a vesk. I can then modify that urog into the monster I want, but the vesk I'd have to start from scratch.

Mathias April 27th, 2018 04:37 PM

The void hag race in that list isn't just a blank void hag NPC with only a race - it's the CR 10 void hag on pg. 120 of Alien Archive, with all of the ability scores, skills, other abilities, spell-like abilities, etc. all pre-set with the same choices made in Alien Archive (although it can be customized from there).

The very first race in the list is a blank NPC that can be created as any race you want by adding the correct creature type and subtype.

ShadowChemosh April 27th, 2018 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thistledown (Post 265968)
I don't think we're on the same page. Right now, I do this:
Create new, select NPC as the type. Confirm add character.
Open it, go to character, go to race. I can pick a void hag, an urog, or any of the AA things, but I can't pick a human or a vesk. I can then modify that urog into the monster I want, but the vesk I'd have to start from scratch.

100% correct. Urog is a "pre-built" monster. A Void Hag is a 'pre-built' monster. Human or Vesk have no 'pre-built' monster stats. A pre-built monster stat (even in HLO) includes all the decisions that Paizo already made when building it (Ability scores, selection of master skills, if the monster was a combat or skill expert). Its not actually a blank "race" like Pathfinder has or would be built in HLC for Pathfinder where you start with race and select skills and ability scores.

From the other thread. Here is the statblock of the human gang members from the first AP Dead Suns:
-----------------------------------------------
Absalom Station Gang Member CR 1/2
XP 200
CE Medium humanoid (human)
Init +3; Perception +10
--------------------
Defense HP 13
--------------------
EAC 10; KAC 12
Fort +2; Ref +4; Will +0
--------------------
Offense
--------------------
Speed 30 ft.
Melee club +2 (1d6-3 B)
Ranged azimuth laser pistol +6 (1d4 F; critical burn 1d4)
--------------------
Statistics
--------------------
Str +2; Dex +3; Con +1; Int -1; Wis +0; Cha -1
Skills Bluff +5, Intimidate +9, Stealth +5
Gear flight suit stationwear, azimuth laser pistol with 1 battery (20 charges), club, credstick (worth 150 cr), credstick (worth 150 cr)

Hero Lab and the Hero Lab logo are Registered Trademarks of LWD Technology, Inc. Free download at http://www.wolflair.com
Pathfinder® and associated marks and logos are trademarks of Paizo Inc.®, and are used under license.
------------------------------------------------

Its stats are in line with the Paizo adventure and built using HLO. But no where did I start with "human" because no such monster exists.

If you are making a vesk adversary you follow the rules of the AA and start with Humanoid as type and Vesk as the subtype. Then fill in the rest of the details. But a Vesk NPC does NOT get the ability score modifiers or many other features of the Vesk PC race.

I am not sure how else to describe this..... :(

jlong05 April 27th, 2018 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thistledown (Post 265968)
I don't think we're on the same page. Right now, I do this:
Create new, select NPC as the type. Confirm add character.
Open it, go to character, go to race. I can pick a void hag, an urog, or any of the AA things, but I can't pick a human or a vesk. I can then modify that urog into the monster I want, but the vesk I'd have to start from scratch.

This is largely where I ran into issues in the understanding of player races as NPCs, because the new player races in AA were presented as a traditional race instead of as a humanoid that you then selected as a subtype selection. The consistency for this isn't clear and it is confusing because of this.

I understand that LW can't/shouldn't make up rules, but this is where there should be some communication back with Paizo to better explain how this should work, especially when you see AA races also as options. Personally, I think the AA races should be base AA rules for Monster use, with the ability to follow the custom NPC rules using the player races in AA following the same rule building design from the Core book. That would keep consistency and be more clear.


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