Fishing for Rumors
 

Any hint, even a small one, that LW might reverse their position on RW and resume development?

Edit: I mean with YARPS seriously considering and seemingly working toward an RW import tool, really LW? You really gonna just let these upstarts take away your customers? That's kinda not smart....

Edit2: Yeah the world has moved to a subscription pay-as-you-go service model for pretty much everything and Realm Works was a buy and its yours model which crippled income. They attempted a pay as you go service model with server sync but for people who only use one PC server sync was obviously not the cash cow they had imagined, and the marketplace flopped for various yet unclear reasons.

It seems an additional feature, that people actually want and are willing to pay a subscription cost for, could revive the software and make it worth developing from a monetary standpoint.

Nevermind its worth developing from the altruistic standpoint of actually providing something to the world that makes people's lives better....no one cares about that kinda stuff anyway I'm sure. It's all about that money.

YARPS is a web app, so it won't take everybody away...

If it takes me it would be VERY reluctantly.

I'm not a fan of the web-app idea....however if the web-app had all or almost all of the functionality RW offers, was still under active development, AND had an RW import function...well....I don't think anyone in their right mind could say no to that.

Edit: But I mean from a purely logical standpoint if a competitor is willing to create an import tool for YOUR product that means you still have a recognizable market share. I can't for the life of me fathom why any company would not capitalize on that market share and just stand idly by while someone else attempts to take it over.

TBH I'll believe the Yarps stuff when I see it.

Personally I do not think the market is big enough to support this kind of product. Yarps kickstarter had 230 people.. That's not much of a market.

The Realm Works Kickstarter has 1,836 people!

Unfortunately the number of GM's who build their own worlds rather than running prepackaged modules in a prepackaged world seems to be declining steadily.

I would pay full price for a nice update like "RW 2020" edition. Fixing stuff and improving performance. But all of that will not come I think, if they plan to re-use parts of RW in their other tools.

I hope they will come back to senses and will continue with RW. :)

I'm with you. They could take RW full-blown Software-As-A-Service and I would pay.

Never have I seen someone have the best product and just abandon it to the vultures like this. It's really shocking.

As KBS possibly hinted, the number of active users in RW might be insufficient to make the product worthwhile - especially when the cost of IP sharing and PDF verification is added into the bundle.

What I was saying was there are not now and likely will never be enough GM's who find value in a product like RW to support it.

Further I never thought selling content, particularly modules, was going to be a big profit center. The user base is small, uses many different rules sets in different genres and are primarily DIY world builders. They might have made some income offering small items like individual buildings/locations or even villages/towns. Stuff a GM might be able to fit into a homebrew world with minor modifications. But despite them saying repeatedly that they intended to do so none ever became available.

I believe the stated reasons were based on being spread too thin. While I am severely disappointed that Real Works is no currently being developed, I'd much rather that than see LWD implode completely.

I can't fathom a GM who wouldn't find value in this tool.

Is everyone flying by the seat of their pants with pre-written material these days? Sad sad times.

Some people have more time than others, also some people are not as creative as others. I put myself a bit in both those camps. I was planning on using the content market for RW.

I've noticed that every time I hit these forums the Realm Works Discussion board has more people viewing than the HLO board (which is the focus of LW's attention).

And the Pathfinder Hero Lab board has more people viewing than the Pathfinder 2e HLO board.

Just something I wonder if LW even notices or cares about. They seem to be quite literally leaving their customers behind and forging ahead into territory that very few people seem interested in following.

I've also searched for alternatives to Realm Works quite extensively and nothing holds up.

I'm holding out hope that one day LW will return to develop Realm Works or perhaps even another developer will purchase it from them and take over.

It would be acceptable to me if it were a software as a service that you had to subscribe to even log in.

Worst case if the developer went out of business we could just continue using the software in offline mode and backup manually ourselves.

The Pathfinder forum is mostly busy with people writing their own extensions; so until HLO provides this ability its forum will be fairly quiet.

The RW forum is probably being watched by only the same few people all the time...

Generally it seems like its about 50-75 people viewing the Realm Works forums almost constantly.

Considering I used realm works for a couple years without even visiting the forums I would bet its a more valued product than LW realizes. They just failed to properly monetize it.

Edit: especially since they have no real competition. There is not another piece of standalone client-side software that can do what this product does. If anyone is aware of one please point me at it. Scrivener, Onenote, Googledocs, all these things fall terribly short. World Anvil, YARPS and others are all web-based. What happens if you put years of work into a web based campaign manager and the website shuts down? I don't really understand why web-based seems to be the go-to model when its a terrible idea long-term and campaigns tend to be very long term endeavors.

At any rate, I've pretty much come to the conclusion my only path forward at the present is to continue using Realm Works even though development has ended, pray to the gods above it doesn't become too buggy or too corrupted and ruin all my work, and maybe years down the road leadership at LW will turn around and decide to bring the project back under development.

Here's to hoping.

Or some other developer buys the product off of LW, resumes development, or a totally third party application launches with functional RW import.

Lots of long shots all lined up here.

Realm Works is still the best. I hope LWD resume at some point.

Yes, yes, yes!

Hear hear!

Not only is it the best campaign manager, IMO its the best product LWD has ever released.

As much as I rely on HLC I would rather see them drop development on literally anything and everything else before I would have wished to see RW development end.

PF2e and HLO and now CT seem to be largely a waste of time to me.

But what can you do....WOTC released D&D 5e, everyone started playing 5e like a bunch of simpletons, Paizo released 2e to compete and now everything is chaos, especially for the still very large core group of PF1e players using HLC.

The problem is PF2 isn't just a new edition of PF, learning the many lessons that should have been learned in the decade between, but essentially a new game. There are just too many new systems.

People went to PF1 because 3.5 was a great system and 4 was awful. So PF2 being a simple evolution of PF1 woul;d have transitioned the whole player base over without an issue. But now there are PF1 players, PF2 players and 5e players all in the same space. That makes it hard not just for WotC and Paizo but everyone who supports the 3 systems.

I'm pretty confident PF2 will put an end to Paizo as a game developer. They'll survive as a publisher of AP's but I'd bet in 5 years they'll just make adventures for whatever edition of D&D is current then.

I agree totally.

PF2 isn't an update to the D20 SRD, so if people are going to change systems why wouldn't they switch to D&D5 which has a much bigger audience?

Sadly if LWD continues to focus HLO to only PF2e and refuse to take on the monumental task of porting PF1e into HLO then LWD will die as well.

Paizo really screwed up the whole landscape with PF2e

Yeah... our group, and every player I personally know, are either playing just Pathfinder or that and 5e.
Based on the horrendous beta, no one has interest in even trying PF2.

The two features of Hero Lab Online that I'd like, are live links to characters so my VTT can read their current defenses or whatever, based on buffs and debuffs.
And to be able to do a group buff and hit seven players and three pets on one click, rather than having to enable an adjustment ten times, and then disable it another ten times.

Those two features, combined with Pathfinder and some select 3pp packages included (for us Spheres and Community Package for the Dreamscarred stuff), and I'd be happy to pay for the increased functionality.
Hopefully enough of the Pathfinder crowd would too, that they continue to enjoy our revenue stream now that Paizo has stopped releasing content for them to profit from providing it to us.

I think HLO and CT has some promise but I just can't get interested without support for PF1e.....sad stuff, man

The last I checked HLO is not focused on just PF2E it also has Starfinder and Shadowrun.

HLO for PF1 will make LWD no money, I already own most of PF1 for HLC. Unless you are willing to pay for a monthly PF1 only fee. I would, but it would probably be a hard sell to some of my group.

The minimal server fees won't cover LWD wages, and I would already be paying those for Starfinder

What was so frustrating, just like 4e, is they just would not listen to the players saying how they didn't like it. Even back during the PF2 previews there were lots of people raising concerns that were just blown off. I lost pretty much all respect for Paizo then.

Yeah I mean in terms of Pathfinder it ONLY supports PF2e, which is basically as good as nothing as far as most people I know are concerned.

I was doing some web searching today trying to see if Paizo is slowing down or losing confidence in PF2e but it doesn't seem they are, not yet at least.

We could be seeing a a PF3e or PF1.5 in the near future if PF2e fails to get adopted as I'm pretty sure is going to happen.

If PF2 dies and PF3 is release, I fear for LWD's future. I think PF2 threw a huge wrench in the works, supporting it and the playtest. Not sure if they could handle another wrench.

That's why you don't do vendor lock-in in the first place.

I am an admitted module queen, and I use RW for those modules. Since LWD no longer supports it, I'm stuck with what they left behind with no improvements down the road. But, it's still an excellent tool for homebrews as well as module queens like me. It beats having multiple pieces of paper with notes scribbled out.

As for subscription-based programs, forget it. I don't have a lot of money to throw away on subscriptions, and I'm not always at a location where I have internet. I want to load the program on my computer and use it wherever I am whether I have internet access or not.

From what I've seen and heard in gaming stores near me, PF2 definitely isn't struggling here. It seems a lot of groups have already made the switch, particularly those with GMs or players who are also PF Society members. I've tried it and have mixed feelings, there are things I like and things I don't. The one PF game I'm in is staying with PF1 for now but everyone is interested in giving PF2 a try sometime. The same group resisted moving from D&D 3.5 to PF1 until they gave it a try.

I'm sure there are areas where PFS is thriving but it has been all but wiped out here. DDAL can get 6 to 8 tables versus 1 or 2 for PFS, and that may be down some more since PFS2 started.

I know PFS has been driving sales for Paizo but, IMO, it has been poisonous for tabletop role playing. It has put the idea into many player's heads that the goal is to break the game and that access to almost everything ever published should be available in a campaign. I've had probably 20 PFS players come through my home game in the last 4 years (we've been trying to get a 6th player for some time) and all have been unhappy with the limits on player options I have as well as my absolute ban on attempts to over power the other players.

For me it's a matter of "it's gotta stop somewhere." I honestly have no idea whether or not I'd like PF2. I'm not going to find out. I spent a TON of money on D&D, then on AD&D, then on 3 and 3.5. When PF1 came out I waited, then bought in with the self-imposed caveat that this would be the last d20 game I'd invest in. And now I've got all of the HLC content for PF1.

And I like it. Complications and flaws and all, I like it. And at my age, there's more than enough material already published to last the rest of my natural life.

Add the multi-genre systems - Savage Worlds, HERO, FATE - to the mix, and I'm set for life. I'll not spend another dime on new game systems.

I like what I've seen of HLO and Campaign Theater, and if LW would incorporate any of the systems I play into HLO (which I guess would be PF1, SW or FATE, as HERO System has it's own character generator) I'd happily lay out $$ for that service. But as is? They're not selling anything I want to spend my money on right now.

I've gone through the same. I think the games companies like to reinvent every ~5-10 years so that they can sell a full set of books yet again. For those that have been around since first D&D it just gets repetitive.

The worst thing about PF(1) is that I've been buying PDFs rather than physical books, so the true scale of how many books I own is hidden - rather than being visible on bookshelves.

I agree 100%. I've tried PFS and a couple other living campaigns but haven't joined any of them and don't intend to. I like the concept of having a consistent and "portable" character for convention play but I've run into players who are way overpowered for their level because the GM was too liberal with rewards, the GM is their best friend, etc. PFS also tends to spawn rules lawyers...

I suspect the occasional reboots are necessary for revenue, though. First of all, not everyone is going to use supplemental books and modules, so there's some segment of the population whose sales are more or less lost forever after the first sale. That one is, in part, one of the reasons most systems on HLC get only sporadic updates since it's not really driving new sales. Secondly, and this is not something I have any data to support, people seem more likely to pirate or secondhand supplemental items compared to the core book, where they like having a physical copy to pass around to the players. Lastly, the profit margin often isn't there. A single module requires a lot of work, artwork, etc, and then retails for a few dollars. The core book costs more to produce, but will likely sell more copies.