Star Wars Saga
 

Hey everyone,
I am just checking to see if anyone has had time or success making Saga rules work with in HL. I have started (but not far) using 4E as the base but I am having troubles right away as always. I thought that if someone else has a start that they could share so the rest of us could use em or see what is done before building from the ground up.

Having just bought the program today, I havent tried any of the editing but I'd love a Star Wars Saga data file.

Unfortunately, data files for Star Wars are probably not feasible; we investigated the possibility some time ago, but to do them we'd need to get a license from LucasArts, which would not be easy to do unless we put a lot of money down on the table. :(

I understand that the cost for SAGA or any Star Wars rules would be way to much & I am not one to be willing to pay $100. large or more for the info, But does that mean if we make it that we can not share with each other (ok as long as it is all for free) or would this get you all (Lone Wolf in trouble AKA storm troopers with baster shutting you down) if it is ok then >>>>
Ok I still thinking that it would be best if I use 4E rules instead of d20 for SAGA to work out info. But I am getting stuck as were to start ie classes or skills first ect. :(

If users developed data files for SAGA and shared them, I don't believe there would be any problems. Now, it's quite possible that Lucas could take exception, but I don't think they'd view fan-created material that supports an officially licensed product as a bad thing.

I don't know enough about SAGA to be helpful on how best to proceed. Hopefully, Colen can chime in with some useful suggestions, but I'm not sure how much he knows about SAGA either.

I am afraid I kept Colen busy in the 4E forums :( so he did not make it to this one.
SAGA was the steping stone to 4E Lead on it helped start 4E and then jumped back to SW line to bring in Saga which in essance it the bridge between 3.5 and 4E addition, smaller skill list (somewhat) tighter class features, tailored feats, more hit points and leveling up is very 4E when you look at it. My brief overview.

Conceptually, it sounds like starting with the 4E files might be a good approach. However, it might be a mess in terms of the actual mechanics. That's something Colen needs to comment on, since he knows the 4E data files inside and out - and I'm just tacitly familiar with them.

I took a look at Star Wars Saga Edition when it originally came out; looking back, it's interesting that Wizards talked about how it was one of the stepping stones to 4th edition, because it's far more similar to d20 than 4e (imo). They certainly simplified a lot of things down to where they are in 4th edition, but the "powers" mechanism which I would consider 4e's keystone is nowhere to be seen, and the class mechanics are a generalised version of d20's.

Given the options, there are 2 possible starting points for Saga, both with their own advantages and disadvantages.

The 4e data files would be one place to start; they're the simpler choice, and you can edit all the mechanics since you have the source code. At-Will powers can be refitted into Talents, Encounter powers to Force powers, and Daily / Utility powers simply discarded. However, the 4e files don't support classes to the level necessary for complete Saga support - you're fine if you want to take a single class (and maybe one prestige class), but if you want to combine classes you're out of luck. The core tenet of 4e is that you have a single class, a single paragon path and a single epic destiny - multiclassing is entirely based on feats, even with the new 'hybrid class' system they designed.

The d20 files would be the other place. They have the class system already in place, so you can easily create all the different Saga Edition classes and combine them in any ways you want. Talents and Force Powers can be assigned via custom abilities and spells.

If I personally was going about creating Saga Edition data files, I'd probably do it in a copy of the d20 files, with all the standard classes and feats marked with "hide" elements. However, I haven't gone through the book recently enough to identify any "gotchas" that would cause problems. Have you considered that as a solution? If not, it might be worth trying to implement a couple of classes in d20 to see how easy it is before making major changes to the 4e files.

Hope this helps!

Thank you Rob and Colen,
You both have helped out a great deal, if I get some free time over the next month hopefully I can get the info in.

SAbel,

Let me know when you get started on the Saga stuff. I'd love to help with it as I've been trying to get started on it myself. Haven't gotten far yet though... (mostly due to time constraints)

I was trying to do it from scratch though, so I definitely think using d20 as a basis is the better way to go. :)

Hey TCArknight,
I also fall under that time problem (hence the late night posts) I think that the D20 is a much better way to go I tried to go the 4e way but it does not go very far before it needs a large amount of work, and from scratch is well beyound me at this time, I ve tried that with L5R system and mainly ran in circles. I will let you know when I get moving with Data.

Sean

If I have not purchased the D20 rules and I edit them for Star Wars Saga (I made a duplicate of D20 and started working on the files) it gives me the message that I am using it in demo mode ect. But If I rework the rules to be a different system is there a way to get it out of Demo mode or do I have to purchase the D20 rule set?

Once I have star wars info in ie character classes and races it should be okay for me to delete the D&D material correct?

You do need to purchase the d20 system to make a derivative of it.

Once you add your Saga material, you'll use the hidden mechanism (discussed in another thread or three on this forum) to hide everything that isn't needed, rather than deleting it, but yes, once you have the Saga material functioning, you'll remove the d20 material from everything the normal user can access.

Here's a thought, what about using the Pathfinder data to make the Saga stuff? :)

I gave up my d20 for pathfinder, but seems like that might be a good fit. And I'd love to get some SAGA done since I am going to be starting a game here before too long.

Any thoughts?

TC

probably this biggest hurdle is going to be the condition bar. not sure how you would go about that in the software

Star Wars Saga was the test bed for 4th Ed so it is the inbetween of 3.5 and 4. It would be easier to build from the D20 Data set BUT I wish it was more 4E.
From the D20 its a matter of adding races, classes equipment then figuring out bonuses and starting off Hit points ect. Plus addin in Force stuff. Thats all LMAO not much that a person could probably spend a year working on :)

Words to the wise...

This path has been walked before. I think you may be interested in reading what transpired in d20 revised days here:
http://holonet.swrpgnetwork.com/show...?threadid=9691

Basically LF will not look kindly to you sharing your work (they obviously can do little to you for private things made which never see the light of the internet...), and WotC *must* serve notice as well the minute they find out about it as part of their license agreement. It states that they must defend LF's interests and license in that way by being a licensee themselves.

WotC's license *only* includes RPGs and printed materials related, *not* digital product, hence why no generator is out by them as part of their online services. The PDFs for Dawn of Defense went through a special "promotional item" loophole which serves for the web-add-on content... that's why its free. EDIT: this is also why there were never PDFs offered of the SAGA books, even when they were selling PDFs of everything else in their library (pre-4e slate cleaning).

I loves me some SAGA, but its official through bags of money or not at all; so sayeth overlord George! I'd hate for you to put a ton of work to find that out the hard way.

EDIT: Unless you show that love through (I'm making an educated guess here) hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of dollars for the digital rights, you can certainly expect a C&D on an attorney's letterhead. Running afoul of LF's legal team is much like your PC falling in Lava. You're dead. No Save. ;)

If you started with the 4E files and adapted them, you'd have access to the full source code of the data files. This would give you maximum flexibility in adapting the files to whatever purpose you deem appropriate. So that's a definite advantage of starting with the 4E files.

That being said, the point about Lucas being hyper-vigilant in policing the IP is accurate and worth noting. If someone were to put in all the work to develop appropriate SAGA data files, it would be a shame if no one could actually use the files. I have *no* idea what the legalities of freely distributed data files would be. Since the data files would not be running on someone's website, there would be no central location to shut down. However, it would be unlikely that the files could be actively promoted anywhere. If folks simply kept it low-key and shared the data files amongst themselves, it might run below the radar at Lucas. Then again, a nasty letter from Lucas' legal department isn't exactly something anyone would enjoy. In the immortal words of Dirty Harry, "Do you feel lucky?" :-)

I love you Mr. Lucas! I would never do anything to get a bad letter or a Stormtropper at my door with the set to kill weapon :)

I have just started working on this, using d20 as a starting point.

I'm trying to add the hidden property to the Drow Elf race, but keep getting the error that rDrElf is required by fPfDarkAde and fPfUmbralS. I have tried given those 2 things the hidden property as well, but it continues to give me the same error.

Any help please?

thanks!

No one can help me or point me in the right direction? :confused:

What are the 2 Things that give you the error? what do they do?

When I put the Drow Elf race (rDrElf) hidden, I get the following error message:

Thing 'fPfDarkAde' - Thing requires thing 'rDrElf' that does not exist
Thing 'fPfUmbralS' - Thing requires thing 'rDrElf' that does not exist

Putting fPfDarkAde & fPfUmbralS as hidden, doesn't change anything, I still get the same error.

fPfDarkAde seems to be the 'Dark Adept'-feat that came with the Pathfinder Second Darkness adventure path. Race Drow Elf is a prerequisite of the feat.

fPfUmbralS seems to be the Umbral Scion feat which also came with the Pathfinder Second Darkness adventure path. Drow Elf is also a prerequisite of the feat.

for some reason the Drow is calling these "Things" to load up the baseic Drow template. You can ither modify the Drow template to remove these 2 items, or you will need to copy the 2 "things" in as well. Not sure how you are using the Drow in Star Wars so i cant say which might be better for you.

did you copy the drow over from PF or D&D?

When you hide the fPfUmbralS and fPfDarkAde things, are you sure you get the same error? It's possible that when you hide them, they're causing other error messages that are reporting other issues.

After hiding fPfUmbralS and fPfDarkAde, can you copy and paste the error messages you get into a reply to this thread?

After adding those 2 as hidden as well, I get the exact same message.

Please see the screenshot I added.

I copied over 3.5 as a starting point, so need the Drow Elf race removed as option for Star Wars :)

It looks like the Drow Elf race is required for the 2 items you are getting errors on. If you dont want the drow Elf in the Star wars universe, what i would suggest is to pull up the 2 items that are cuaisng the erros. in them you will see pre-reqs. just remove the code that points to the drow elf race and it should clear it up.

If I open pth_second_darkness.dat in the 'source' folder, it wont let me edit tho.

I have tried copying over those 2 items, filled in the replace id field and removed the prereqs that way, that also didn't work and still gives the error.

No suggestions anymore from anyone?

I assume you are making a star wars user file, since I just read the tail end of the thread. in your star wars user file create a new Drow race by using new copy, give it a unique ID, then in the replaces field put in the unique id for the orignal drow race.

Under hidden enter the unique id for your new Drow race that should hide the Drow.
You can probaby also just create one of your Star Wars races and use the replaces thing field for the unique id of the drow and do it that way as well.

And while at it, while the editor will not let you edit the game system core files, you can edit xml files directly with an editor like notepad or one built for xml like XML Marker taking out the prerequistes on those two areas manually. If you do that though make sure you keep a backup so that if you screw up the syntax you can start over.

Thanks a bunch Praetor, that worked like a charm!

And now one big newbie question: where can I find those xml files? Can't seem to find any in the map of the game system itself.

In this vein I'm going to ask...is there an HL api that solo developers can use as opposed to using the HL development tools? The dev tools that HL has are very nice but if there was an open api it'd help the community develop this sort of thing.

Has anything changed on this front for the D20 idea? Or is it still too much?

It is still to much.
The more I have played 4E d&D the more I wish that SAGA had gone further and was updated into a full version of 4E. SAGA does some things ok but it still has a large amount of bulk from 3.5.
I have not had time to work on this at all to much to do and no time to do it.

Maybe someone else may want to try.

This is a pretty old thread line, but I have been interested in something similar. Has anyone made any progress Star Wars: Saga.

Would this require the authoring kit?

Yes it would require the authoring kit to use it out of demo mode.

I'm also interested to see where people have gone with this version?

I'm still working on the d6 version.

This thread seems a little inactive, but I've been working actively on a Saga Edition rule set by building it up from scratch. My plan is to do nothing but the core rule book first, and then add on from there.

What I need is someone with a fair bit of knowledge of the scripting language and the authoring kit to answer the occasional odd question and people to help me debug and verify the data sets.

If anyone is interested in contributing, please post a reply and we can get the ball rolling.

I'm working on the Star Wars d6 version at the moment (not done anything since December last year though) and will most likely be doing some more work next month.

I don't mind collaborating on how I've done stuff, but posting here might solve more issues for you.

Cool. I'll just keep checking back by then and posting the occasional question.

Sadly, I know nothing about the d6 Star Wars rules, or I would offer to help.