Bug Reports - Version 2.8
 

(a bug reports thread for the 4/13/12 update)

Unfortunately, there are still some sections of the Shadowrun files we haven't completed yet. These are all coming as soon as we can get them accomplished. There's no need to repeat these items as bug reports.

1. Combat
   • Apply wound modifiers to the appropriate tests.
2. Magic
   • Astral Attributes, Perception, Projection and Combat (currently incomplete)
3. Matrix & Technomancers
   • AR vs. VR vs. Hot-Sim VR (currently incomplete)
   • Active/Passive/Hidden mode
4. Vehicles & Drones
   • Rigging & Jumping In (including full handling for cyborgs)
5. NPCs & Critters
   • Grunt/Lieutenant NPC Mechanics
   • Group/Professional Rating
   • Critters
6. Miscellaneous
   • Track what senses a character currently has active, and report that to the user in a single list. This will be a list of special senses that's shown when you move your mouse over the Perception dicepool at the top of the screen.
   • For the Condition Monitors on the In-Play tab, replace the numbers with boxes
   • Apply various "All Actions", "All Physical Actions", "All Matrix Actions" etc. bonuses/penalties, including wound penalties
   • Modify Contacts so that they can't be altered on the Social tab during Advancement mode, but are instead changed on the Advancement tab, to preserve a record of how your relationship with that contact changed.
7. Augmentation
   • Biodrones (this requires the rules for critters to be finished first).
8. Street Magic
   • The sample vessels on pg 87 (in terms of how they'll be handled in Hero Lab, the vessels are critter races that are possessed by the spirits, so this project requires the critter rules to be finished first).
9. Runner's Companion
   • The Alternative Character Creation Chapter.
   • The Drake, HMHV Infected, Shapeshifter, AI, Free Spirit, and Sapient Critter sections of the Advanced Character Concepts chapter.

Woot 1st!!


Improved ability combat skills (in this case pistols) is not discounting for the warriors way. All the other adept powers under The warriors way are working correctly.

I have a pistols adept using warriors way quality.
I selected improved reflexes mystic armor and combat sense for the 3 powers discounted (magic attribute 6)
When i add improved ability (pistols) and raise it to lvl2. it increases the cost of combat sense (from .75 discounted and raises to 1pt).

I also have quickdraw and rapid healing selected to finish out the powers and it doesnt change with those. It also doesnt change when i raise the 2 powers im getting a discount on. only changes the cost when i do improved ability<combat skills> and raise it higher then lvl 1. Just checked again. It is changing the cost when you specify which combat skill.
I did it while only having quick draw which was discounted correctly, then i added improved ability<combat skill> it didnt change the cost of quickdraw untill i selected a combat skill.

The underbarrel shotgun of the Nitama Optimum II Assault Rifle should have an ammo capacity of 5(m) according to my Arsenal, in Hero Labs it has 10(c).

The negative quality "prejudiced" adds its build point cost instead of subtracting it like it should.

bludragon, please give me a complete list of the adept powers you have. Just a list - power: AP cost

The way qualities don't bother the user with what powers should be discounted - they figure out which combination of discounted powers would give you the greatest benefit.

found a few bugs:

The dv & defense modifiers for high-velocity weapons is not correct. Should be DV +11 and Defense -11, it's showing +9/-9. Same with Mini-Guns, these are supposed to be DV +14 Defense -14. Arsenal 26 and 30.

The Ammo Feed option for Machine Guns does not appear to be working, Bought the Stoner-Ares M107. checked under Modification, there is a line that says Ammo Feed but no method to set or change it, just a question mark that describes it.

PDF sheet output is not showing all the mods installed on armor. It just shows 2 lines, all the mods that do not fit on those two lines are not shown.

the powers chosen are : improved reflexes2 Combat sense2 rapid healing quickdraw improved ability combat (pistols)2 Mystic armor4.

When the char was done before on paper, we took the 25% discount on improved reflexes and on mystic armor and improved ability(pistols).
I just did a brand new char and all i gave the char was adpet quality and warriors way.Also selected dodge blades and pistols. Then raised magic attr to 6. Selected JUST improved ability combat (pistols). Normal cost for the skill is .5 per lvl. It is not discounting for the power which is listed under the warriors way. I tested all the other powers listed under the warriors way and they all discount except the improved ability combat.
In this char's case you get 3 powers discounted(1 per 2pts magic attribute) but if you pick up a 4th power in the list even if you plan to pay the full cost the program is switching the cost of powers to discount whichever is higher. Shouldnt do that b/c it can throw chars off on cost spent IMO depending ofcourse on the powers chosen and each cost.

example:: mystic armor4 (discount)
improved reflexes2 (discount)
combat sense2 (discount)
When i add improved ability combat (on the list under the quality but NOT discounting) and raise it to lvl2, it bumps up the cost for combat sense from .75(discount) to 1pt, while still costing 1pt for improved ability combat.This happens on both a previously created char or a brand new char. Hope i explained it enough :-)

Would it be possible to make it with the ways of the adept qualities, that when you pick it you select which power you want the discount on not let the program automatically do it. Maybe a box to click on the magic powers area that when clicked/check marked it will discount the power. just a thought.

bludragon - looks like there's a bug in handling the improved ability power. I'll get that fixed for the next update, thanks for reporting it.

Metagenetic qualities question
 

How would one get the metagenetic qualities to add directly to the neg and pos point total so they go against the over all total so you can not pick over 35 point in each quality area. As it stands you can pick more.

I'm afraid I can't duplicate this.

I just added the following to a blank character:

Changeling
Arcane Arrestor
Biosonar

(I just picked the first two high-cost metagenetic qualities I saw)

The Positive Qualities tab is currently displayed in red, and when I look at the error report, it says "Positive Qualities BP: Resource Overspent: 45 of 35".

What I'm trying to do is give more Neg and pos metagenetic abilities to the fomori the rules as I read them doesn't say you can't get more. As far as I can see, I may be wrong. But when you buy more it won't count against the total neg or pos total. How would I go about house ruling this, if at all possible.
thanks for any help.

Jbear,

Metagenetics are unlocked by taking the Changeling quality.

Once you've done that the first points you spend don't count based on the surged level you have 1,2,3 = 10/5, 20/10, or 30/15. those don't count against your overall Qualities total. If I buy more metagenetic qualities, they count against the total.

For instance, I took Quills (10 pt positive) and Bioluminescence (5 point negative). That's free because 10 - 5 = 5 which is the 5 points I spent on Changeling.

If I then added Balance receptor, that would then cost me 5 bp against my 35 pt total.

jbearwillis, could you please expand on your last post? I'm afraid I don't understand what issue you're trying to report. What are you seeing? What do you expect to see?

Oh I see the problem. Some Metavariants such as the Formori or the Dryad unlock the metagenetics qualities area and technically count as having taking Changeling with the traits selected.

The math isn't working correctly because they don't have the actual Changeling Quality, they get it from their race.

Simple test, take a dryad and add another metagenetic quality to him or her.

A dryad mathematically has Glamour (15 pt metagenetic postivie) and Symbiosis (10 pt metagenetic negative) and mathematically is Changeling SURGE II. well.... more like SURGE 1.5 (20/10 would be 2, 10/5 is 1).

But the calculations don't seem to work because they don't have the actual Changeling quality.

Yes that is what I'm saying - Am I right or wrong on this - it is confusing me LOL - and if so is there a work around. I was Just asking because my Shadowmaster allows this.

The bug here appears to be that HL is allowing you to take additional metagenetic qualities if you take a metavariant - you're supposed to have to take the Changling quality, even if you're already a metavariant, in order to allow the purchase of additional metagenetic qualities.

If you do take Changeling for a metavariant, the free qualities from your metavariant don't count against Changeling's limits, nor do those free qualities from your metavariant count against the normal positive/negative quality limits.

My fomori has 2 neg qualities Extravagant Eyes and Unusual Hair but they won't count against the overall neg.total. Also if you take the changeling class - if you take more neg. qualities it sends the main neg qualities in to the neg zone instead of adding to the total so you can buy more neg qualities then should be allowed - if I'm seeing it right.

In order to purchase Extravagant Eyes and Unusual Hair, your Fomori must first purchase the Changeling quality. You are not supposed to be allowed to purchase them just by purchasing Fomori.

Not true.

I think that's contradicted by pg 73: "The first step when creating a changeling character is to choose a normal metatype (human elf, dwarf, ork, or troll), metavariant..."

I think the part on pg 110 is talking about the fact that metavariants get free metagenetic qualities from their race - it's not allowing them to purchase more.

You're correct.

I originally misunderstood what was wrong, originally I thought you were saying that you took changeling and then wondered why the metagenetic qualities weren't counting against your 35 total quality points, once you posted that you were doing this to a Formori, it made more sense.

Ok LOL now I don't feel so stupid, lol - is there a work around, for this, Mathias and I would just like to thank you and CryptoKnight for the quick response from you too. This forum is the best.

That's not what the rules say. The original quote was talking about actual changeling characters... Metavariants are Metagenetic by default.

On the personal tab, in the "Permanent Adjustments" table, there's a "Negative Quality Build Point Limit" adjustment that you can use to allow more or less negative qualities.

I suppose you could read it either way. The best bet would be to get a clarification from the authors.

There's other problems with Metagenetic Qualities. Page 110 lists several normal qualities that are also metagenetic. We talked about this in the developers forum a few months back, and I forget what you had said, but this is important if somebody wants to use the negative qualities to offset something they changlinged for.

Mathias on that same page, in the paragraph below, it says this

(After a metatype is chosen, transforming the character into
a changeling is as simple as choosing one of the 3 levels of the
Changeling Positive quality (next column).)

it says Metatype , but does not say metavariant. what I read is the only ones that can take them are metatypes with the changeling quality, Metavariants and a Non-Metahuman sapient if a gamemaster allows it. Correct me if I'm wrong in the way it's stated.

jbear,

If Shadowrun rules didn't conflict themselves in the same book, well it wouldn't be Shadowrun would it ;)

LOL Yes I agree, Why do they have to write them as stereo instructions.

It's a proofing issue, CGL are getting better but they still contradict themselves occaisionally.

The way I read these is Metavariants are metagenic simply because of their free qualities. The vast majority of times you see 'metatype' in the rules you should include metavariants too - it's the same with Humans (long ago some people didn't see human as a metatype).

Changling allows any other qualities besides the free ones. Least that's how I read it.

And yeah, HL doesn't allow normal qualities to be taken as metagenic ones.

You could read it that way... except of course the part of the book where it said that if you're a metavariant you can choose powers. Which is why I suggested getting clarification from Catalyst.

Well I just did what Mathias told me to do, it was a simple work around that worked.. So at this point I'm very happy. Thanks all - hope we can get an answer from Catalyst Game Labs soon - LOL

Fwiw, the only other character builders.... Chummer and the Excel spreadsheet from dumpshock both take different tacts... Chummer lets you add them, the excel spreadsheet does not. *sigh* so much for consensus.

Poke Jason, see what he says.

if it helps, changelings can go over the 35 BP limit on negative and positive qualities. eg, SURGE 3 costs 15 points of the positive quality limit, none on the negative quality limit and gives the player 15 "free" (they get 30 and pay for 15) points of positive and 15 "free" negative points to spend. while it is true that the points kind of balance each other out, it dose mean that a changeling could spend 50 BP on positive and negative quality's.

also i do not see a contradiction in the rules, after all Formori are still limited to 35 BP of quality's. Formori Changling anyone?

Some errors found with the new Runners Companion release in Shadowrun: the positive qualities College Education and Linguist do not add any rating bonus for skills of rank 1. Also, the rating bonus gained on Languages from the Linguist quality should be +2, not +1.

whoops, In Debt is right but didn't work how I expected

SR4A, pg 68 (Skill Ratings): "The maximum modified rating allowed is 1.5 times the natural rating..."

So, with a skill rating of 1, you can't take advantage of the bonus rating you're getting from those qualities. You'll need a skill rating of at least 4 to get the full advantage from Linguist.

Just as an FYI I posed the metagenetic question to the Shadowrun4.com forums, hoping for a Catalyst person to step in. But right now it seems that the majority feel that metavariants can take additional metagenetic qualities, but can't take the Changeling quality.

http://forums.shadowrun4.com/index.p...;topicseen#new