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-   -   Announcement about Subscriptions (http://forums.wolflair.com/showthread.php?t=63802)

Farling February 6th, 2020 02:11 AM

Announcement about Subscriptions
 
The official announcement about licenses is available at https://www.wolflair.com/licenses

----

An initial announcement was made on facebook, but not referenced in these forums, see https://www.wolflair.com/hero-lab-online-subscriptions

Duggan February 6th, 2020 06:05 AM

Because I don't trust links to not go away...

Quote:

For those of you who’ve been asking how to renew your Hero Lab Online subscriptions, we have answers! Standard Service subscription renewals are now live in our store, and you can purchase them in increments of 6 or 12 months at any time. Six months of Standard Service is $14.99, or you can pick up a 12-month subscription for just $24.99 for the whole year.

If your subscription lapses, there’s no need to panic; your account reverts to demo mode, and advanced character creation, additions, and upgrades will no longer be possible. However, all your purchased content will be there waiting to advance when you renew your account. Additionally, you’ll be able to access and print characters in their current state, even with a lapsed account.

For everyone who’s been accessing our service for free the last many months as we’ve put the Campaign Theater Beta and subscriptions into place, we hope you’ve enjoyed playing in our sandbox. We want to thank you for all your playtesting and reports; it’s helped us immensely with making changes many of our users want to see. We aren’t turning off the free time just yet, but users will need to purchase Standard Service extensions by February 24th to continue with uninterrupted access.

New users who still have free time left from their initial purchase of Hero Lab Online can absolutely buy Standard Service extensions right away, but it isn’t necessary to continue using the service. Our system will send an email reminder when your access is about to expire.

What about group licensing? Many of you have requested that we institute some manner of party licensing or other group discounts for Hero Lab Online, and we’ve been listening! Prior to the February 24th renewal deadline, we’ll be unveiling new account types that allow groups more flexibility in how they share their services and play together. Keep an eye out for more news on exactly how that will work in the weeks ahead!

jlong05 February 6th, 2020 06:15 AM

Well, my group isn't doing Starfinder right now and no interest in Shadowrun or PF2E so I guess I will lapse into demo mode.

Very interesting news. Will wait and see if they ever get old content converted as promised and open access for user created files for the games they don't normally cover but we all play.

dacoobob February 6th, 2020 08:49 AM

Quote:

What about group licensing? Many of you have requested that we institute some manner of party licensing or other group discounts for Hero Lab Online, and we’ve been listening! Prior to the February 24th renewal deadline, we’ll be unveiling new account types that allow groups more flexibility in how they share their services and play together. Keep an eye out for more news on exactly how that will work in the weeks ahead!
excellent news!

Ualaa February 10th, 2020 11:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jlong05 (Post 285640)
... Will wait and see if they ever get old content converted as promised and open access for user created files for the games they don't normally cover but we all play.

Definitely this.

If Pathfinder makes it to Hero Lab online, with third party addons (Community Package & Spheres), I'd love the features of Campaign Theater, and would happily support Lone Wolf.

Maidhc O Casain February 11th, 2020 06:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jlong05 (Post 285640)
…Will wait and see if they ever get old content converted as promised and open access for user created files for the games they don't normally cover but we all play.

Yep. Pathfinder 1st would be awesome. Savage Worlds would be great as well. Without at least one of those two systems, HLO has nothing that I want.

slate February 11th, 2020 10:34 PM

Let's be honest though, PF1 is very much dying due to lack of first party support. Will they do it eventually? Maybe. But as a pretty small company, there has to be profit potential for them. I honestly don't see how moving 1E to HLO would be profitable for them.

civory February 12th, 2020 03:15 AM

Quote:

What about group licensing? Many of you have requested that we institute some manner of party licensing or other group discounts for Hero Lab Online, and we’ve been listening! Prior to the February 24th renewal deadline, we’ll be unveiling new account types that allow groups more flexibility in how they share their services and play together. Keep an eye out for more news on exactly how that will work in the weeks ahead!
I will say, this bit of news is what is holding me off from actively subscribing and will make or break if this model proves functional at all.

For the purposes of group play, this should function similarly to sitting at a table with a pile of books. Even if it just restricted to PCs that are part of campaigns I create, my players should not have to re-buy material that I've already paid for.

I'm holding off on buying a personal license until I get clarity on the model as I've seen no indication upgrading to a group license by the 24th will be a seamless process. At the same time, it would be great to not be left with only a few days to decide before the deadline. Is it likely that group licensing details will be announced this week?

It's a bit worrying that the details have yet to be announced this close to when you start charging.

GougedEye February 13th, 2020 11:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by civory (Post 285838)
I'm holding off on buying a personal license until I get clarity on the model as I've seen no indication upgrading to a group license by the 24th will be a seamless process. At the same time, it would be great to not be left with only a few days to decide before the deadline. Is it likely that group licensing details will be announced this week?

Hopefully I'm wrong, but I'm betting that the most we can expect is an announcement of how group licensing will work at some unspecified future date rather than any sort of implementation by the 24th.

Hopefully I'm wrong, because without this, it's basically useless to me as a forever DM.

Dami February 14th, 2020 12:13 AM

The 24th is the date for "unveiling new account types". This doesn't mean they will be available from that date. I'd bet that we only learn what form "group licenses" will take and that actual implementation will be in coming in the following months.

marroon69 February 14th, 2020 05:45 AM

Update to Group
 
So if I just renewed my license for a year will I be able to add group licensing on to it? Please say yes....

dacoobob February 14th, 2020 10:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by marroon69 (Post 285923)
So if I just renewed my license for a year will I be able to add group licensing on to it? Please say yes....

i don't work for LW but i'd be pretty shocked if there's not a mechanism to upgrade an existing regular license to one of the new group options after they come out. in fact it might just be an add-on feature to your standard license, that would make the most sense from a business perspective imo.

ronlugge February 15th, 2020 07:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GougedEye (Post 285910)
Hopefully I'm wrong, but I'm betting that the most we can expect is an announcement of how group licensing will work at some unspecified future date rather than any sort of implementation by the 24th.

Hopefully I'm wrong, because without this, it's basically useless to me as a forever DM.

I really hope you're wrong too, because getting my groups into this would be awesome.

KazMx February 17th, 2020 07:10 PM

We're still waiting I guess, I'm not extending my license until I knwo for sure. LWD? Are you there?

Hitchhiker February 20th, 2020 08:19 AM

I am really on the fence about renewing my subscription, and I am waiting to hear the announcement about group purchases. Has there been any further word?

Shadowfoot February 20th, 2020 01:13 PM

I've set up my account with Auth-Renew every 12 months. I expect to be able to add the group licence to that. I have 6 players at my table so hopefully, it won't be too much.

Koro76 February 22nd, 2020 10:07 PM

So...supposedly we were supposed to hear something about the upcoming subscription models before the 24th, and it's 1hr until the 23rd PST. Anything yet?

Hitchhiker February 24th, 2020 05:22 AM

Well if there was I missed it, oh well. One of the groups that I GM for was even asking me if I was going to renew the subscription. I was waiting until the announcement was made. In usual Lonewolf manner, missed another self-imposed deadline. Not really surprised.

ronlugge February 24th, 2020 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Koro76 (Post 286201)
So...supposedly we were supposed to hear something about the upcoming subscription models before the 24th, and it's 1hr until the 23rd PST. Anything yet?

I honestly assumed they meant by the end of today, so they've got a few hours yet..

Please tell us something soon...

dacoobob February 24th, 2020 02:40 PM

the account and licensing system is currently down for maintenance until 5pm Pacific, i'm guessing that's a good sign...?

Dragnmoon February 24th, 2020 05:16 PM

It is for every update, so not really.

dacoobob February 24th, 2020 06:34 PM

The following was just posted on the Hero Lab Facebook page:

"The Hero Lab Online store is currently down as we’ve been working to add new license options for HLO. We don’t want to interrupt prime gaming hours to fully implement the new items so the store will continue to be down until tomorrow morning to allow everyone to finish up their games uninterrupted.

But tomorow, new license types!"

Dragnmoon February 24th, 2020 07:21 PM

Now that is definitely something.

gnomatsu February 25th, 2020 02:48 AM

Hallelujah! Can't wait

flyteach February 25th, 2020 04:14 AM

The account management page is still down (is it part of the "store"). What's odd is that LWD will post on FB, but not here, which is where they link from their product to get official information. <sigh>

dacoobob February 25th, 2020 08:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flyteach (Post 286266)
The account management page is still down (is it part of the "store"). What's odd is that LWD will post on FB, but not here, which is where they link from their product to get official information. <sigh>

this is what drives me nuts. the in-product messages direct users to these forums for info, but then they post announcements on FB only and leave the forums in the dark. (except for Joe-- he posts here regularly, which i really appreciate! but as he himself points out often, he's not an "official" source for LW.)

if FB is now the preferred channel for LW news, why do they still tell people to come here? or better yet, why not just post announcements to multiple platforms? do they not understand how to copy-paste text? their marketing/customer relations strategy is just baffling sometimes.

evdjj3j February 25th, 2020 08:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flyteach (Post 286266)
The account management page is still down (is it part of the "store"). What's odd is that LWD will post on FB, but not here, which is where they link from their product to get official information. <sigh>

I agree they should communicate via the forum first then social media.

Sjmarshall February 25th, 2020 09:09 AM

Not sure if anyone has been on the site lately, but it's back up and the new licenses are available.

dacoobob February 25th, 2020 09:45 AM

since LW still hasn't posted any announcement, here's the new license plan descriptions (copy pasted from the new product pages):

Quote:

HLO Apprentice Level

Targeted at select players, the Apprentice Level is a low-cost option that enables a single player to fully participate in campaigns run by GMs with the Patron service via content sharing. The player never purchases any content and solely utilizes the material provided by their GM. Outside of Patron campaigns, an Apprentice account operates as a Demo account, and access to Patron granted content is unavailable. The Apprentice service plan is $4.99 for four months of service and is renewable at 4-month intervals.
Quote:

HLO Standard Level

Geared for the everyday player or GM, most users start here. Select your favorite game system and any add-on loot (e.g., rules supplements or adventures) to purchase. The material is unlocked at checkout, and you're ready to set off on your character creation adventure. The Standard service level provides a single user access to character creation, encounter options, in-play support across a broad spectrum of devices, Campaign Theater™, and more. New users save $5 off the regular price for Standard service, which is renewable at 6-month or 12-month intervals.
Quote:

HLO Patron Level

Created with GMs in mind, the Patron service builds on our Standard offering with the ability to share all your purchased content with the players in your campaigns, allowing them to enjoy the game without the additional financial burden. Content sharing can be applied to up to four campaigns at the same time, providing the adventurers are of sufficient level—Apprentice, Standard, or Patron. Content sharing does not work for players with Demo accounts. New users save $5 off the regular price for Patron service, which is renewable at 6-month or 12-month intervals.
Overall these options look really good imo-- a GM with a Patron-level account can share all their purchased content with players in their campaigns, and the players only need to pay 5 bucks every 4 months to get access to everything the GM owns. Pretty much exactly what we've all been asking for, well done LW!

dacoobob February 25th, 2020 09:52 AM

some further info from the website:

Quote:

Please choose the service level that best suits your situation. If you choose the Apprentice service, you're ready to check out. If you choose the Standard service or Patron service, you must also choose at least one game system to unlock. Additional content options can also be added for the game system(s) you select.

Here are a few important notes that may answer immediate questions:

Game systems and additional content are one-time purchases that are forever unlocked to your account. Only the service plan incurs a recurring charge, regardless of how much content you've unlocked.

You can add new game systems and/or rules supplements to your account at any time.

You can adjust your service plan over time, upwards or downwards, subject to certain limitations.

If your service should lapse, you still retain the ability to view what you've created (characters, campaigns, etc.).

gnomatsu February 25th, 2020 10:19 AM

This sucks and was not what i was expecting.

I thought demo accounts would be able to access my campaigns and content much like Dnd beyond which is a proven model.

Instead my players have to pay five bucks a quarter. I know its small but theres always one who won't pay, and its creates an obstacle to play or me enforcing herolab usage.

Why can we have a level higher than patron where I can pay more to allow demo players in my campaign.

If we don't get this, I'm out I'm afraid.

Joe February 25th, 2020 10:39 AM

Copied from my reply here: 2020-02-25 Update: Build CB54D0C

Quote:

Originally Posted by gnomatsu (Post 286283)
Why can we have a level higher than patron where I can pay more to allow demo players in my campaign.

We have discussed doing something like this internally, and may very well end up going that direction, although we have not determined a timeline yet. Keep an eye out for announcements on the topic in the future.

Please keep in mind that we are a small team and need to roll things out in stages. Going from no group licensing at all to the Patron/Apprentice model represents a massive improvement for a large number of people, and it was a lot of work on its own. Now that we've put this out as a foundation, we can begin to refine it to cover additional cases.

dacoobob February 25th, 2020 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gnomatsu (Post 286282)
Why can['t] we have a level higher than patron where I can pay more to allow demo players in my campaign.

I mean, there's nothing stopping you from buying accounts for other people. Just create some Apprentice accounts at 5 bucks each and hand out the logins to your players if you want.

dacoobob February 25th, 2020 10:59 AM

also, players with Demo accounts can join your HLO Campaign already. they just won't be able to share all your extra purchased content unless they have at least an Apprentice account.

gnomatsu February 25th, 2020 11:13 AM

Thanks Joe, I didn't mean to diminish the effort, I know what hard work software delivery can be.

Dacobob there is something stopping me making a bunch of apprentice account s and handing them out. It's a pain in arse making multiple payments on separate accounts not to mention security issues.

All I wanted was a product I can pay for and my players can use.

To be fair this was my expectation not something Herolab ever promised.

However this model works really well for DnD beyond. I couldn't get any of my players to fork out up front for that, but after using it for a while for free in my campaign, most of them paid out so they could experiment with building chars outside of the campaign.

I'm afraid with current model players will not bother trying it out because of up front cost, you give players something for free and then they pay for a bigger hit just like drug dealers do ��

The current demo account can't let you use it for real in a campaign, which is where it shines, and where people will be drawn in.

sparky77 February 25th, 2020 11:16 AM

I think the announced model is progress, and I’m not ungrateful. I think the patron licence option is pretty good for groups of players who campaign.
We however are a gaming couple doing organised play, and though the patron licence will let us share bought resources, it will cost $65... more than twice the standard licence subscription. Whilst I understand sharing resources must cost more than a single licence, this seems like a big hike in price when we’ll get no additional benefit from it.
It would be good for this kind of position to be considered in any future licensing modifications.

gnomatsu February 25th, 2020 11:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dacoobob (Post 286289)
also, players with Demo accounts can join your HLO Campaign already. they just won't be able to share all your extra purchased content unless they have at least an Apprentice account.

Buts that's half the purpose. If eople can't access the loot I'm handing out because they haven't got the module it's from then everything breaks.

All I'm asking is to let me pay from my account. It's a model that works well on DND beyond and in my anecdotal experience draws in more custom as initially free players get sucked in and pay after they see how great it is

rob February 25th, 2020 11:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gnomatsu (Post 286291)
Dacobob there is something stopping me making a bunch of apprentice account s and handing them out. It's a pain in arse making multiple payments on separate accounts not to mention security issues.

All I wanted was a product I can pay for and my players can use.

FWIW, there IS a plan for giving you exactly this. Since it builds on all the stuff we just released today, it's not in place yet. If all goes well, you'll be able to take advantage of it soon. But we're not announcing anything yet or making any promises, as that repeatedly got us into trouble in the past. There are some other pieces that need to be completed first, but my goal is to give GMs exactly what you're asking for here. So please stay tuned in the weeks ahead...

gnomatsu February 25th, 2020 11:31 AM

Super, thanks Rob, and thanks again for the product, it's fantastic!

rob February 25th, 2020 11:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sparky77 (Post 286292)
We however are a gaming couple doing organised play, and though the patron licence will let us share bought resources, it will cost $65... more than twice the standard licence subscription. Whilst I understand sharing resources must cost more than a single licence, this seems like a big hike in price when we’ll get no additional benefit from it.
It would be good for this kind of position to be considered in any future licensing modifications.

A solution for this is part of the bigger plan that I just mentioned above. We can't do it all at once, but we've now got the most complicated pieces into place, so the foundation is all there for us to build on.


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