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-   -   Random Number Generator (http://forums.wolflair.com/showthread.php?t=60751)

evdjj3j June 4th, 2018 03:59 PM

Random Number Generator
 
I sometimes have people at the table I am playing with complain when I use the dice roller built into HLO saying they don't trust it. I have faith in the RNG in HLO but I would like to know what RNG is used so I can be like, "Here is the RNG they use, see it's random". It blows my mind the number of people that don't trust a RNG to roll a d20 but they trust one to make secure financial transactions.

EightBitz June 5th, 2018 08:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by evdjj3j (Post 266965)
I sometimes have people at the table I am playing with complain when I use the dice roller built into HLO saying they don't trust it. I have faith in the RNG in HLO but I would like to know what RNG is used so I can be like, "Here is the RNG they use, see it's random". It blows my mind the number of people that don't trust a RNG to roll a d20 but they trust one to make secure financial transactions.

Not all RNGs are created equally. There's no such thing as a true RNG. All the RNGs we use are simulated RNGs. Some simulations are better than others.

I don't know what HLO uses, but if it's just a dice roller, I wouldn't necessarily expect it to be on par with RNGs used for cryptography. It COULD be on par, but there's no reason to expect it to be.

Toblakai June 5th, 2018 09:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EightBitz (Post 267008)
Not all RNGs are created equally. There's no such thing as a true RNG. All the RNGs we use are simulated RNGs. Some simulations are better than others.

I don't know what HLO uses, but if it's just a dice roller, I wouldn't necessarily expect it to be on par with RNGs used for cryptography. It COULD be on par, but there's no reason to expect it to be.

Even if it isn't a good one.. it's still equivalent of a typical die, it's not like non-casino dice are perfectly weighted. Especially after the die has been used for a while.

Fuzzy June 5th, 2018 09:55 PM

just about any RNG you'll find in use today is going to be better than mass produced cheap dice.

evdjj3j June 6th, 2018 04:02 AM

I’m hoping a dev will weigh in, it should be a simple question. I don’t see any reason why it wouldn’t be crytptologically secure quality.

Aaron June 8th, 2018 08:02 AM

I don't know the answer myself, being a DFA rather than a Dev, but I flagged this to the person who should know.

jfrazierjr June 9th, 2018 08:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by evdjj3j (Post 266965)
I sometimes have people at the table I am playing with complain when I use the dice roller built into HLO saying they don't trust it. I have faith in the RNG in HLO but I would like to know what RNG is used so I can be like, "Here is the RNG they use, see it's random". It blows my mind the number of people that don't trust a RNG to roll a d20 but they trust one to make secure financial transactions.

google for "check dice for balance". If they are using dice that are not clear(ie, those multicolored speckled dice vs the gem dice that are translucent), there is a decent chance that their dice are completely not random. And if you can prove that any of their dice they use are not random, that should shut them up. Make the prove that their dice are all balanced and truly random.

EightBitz June 10th, 2018 03:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fuzzy (Post 267012)
just about any RNG you'll find in use today is going to be better than mass produced cheap dice.

You're confusing reality with perception.
If I'm running a game, and I'm attacking the party with a creature, a monster or an NPC, and I used HL's dice tool, and I roll three natural 20s in a row, that's not only allowed for with randomness, but it's to be expected sometimes. But that's counter-intuitive to our brain's understanding of randomness.

If I do the same thing with a physical d20, it appears symmetrical, therefore it appears to be fair. Also, people have been using dice for games much longer than we've been using computers, so it's also more "normal" and more trusted.

When it comes to understanding random number generation, computer code is more esoteric and less approachable than the perception of physical symmetry. I doubt the average gamer, even if you showed them the code, would understand the intricacies of random number generation anymore than they would have the capacity to measure the balance (and, by extension, the randomness) of a physical die.

Aaron June 10th, 2018 05:07 PM

My craziest streak of natural 20s ran 7 long, FYI.

EightBitz June 10th, 2018 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aaron (Post 267192)
My craziest streak of natural 20s ran 7 long, FYI.

Physical rolls or digital rolls?


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