Lone Wolf Development Forums - User content support for HLO

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- - User content support for HLO (http://forums.wolflair.com/showthread.php?t=64892)

User content support for HLO

So I read on the User forums that there was talk of HLO not supporting user content. Is their any truth to this?

Quote:

Originally Posted by rob (Post 289852)

This is vastly harder within HLO than Classic for one very simple reason. We need to safeguard against user errors with PERFECT success. HLO is a shared resource on a common server that all users access. If a user error is not caught, it can cause everything to fail for everyone. Within Classic, the only one impacted by a user error is the user himself. Not within HLO.

This gets even more complex due HL scripting being an pretty powerful language. For example, it would be trivial in a script to introduce an infinite loop. It's also quite possible to accomplish that in a non-obvious way that spans multiple scripts and procedures. Obviously, an infinite loop would completely screw all other users on the server at that time, so we'd have to detect such errors and deal with them in some reasonable way that doesn't negatively impact the system while giving reasonable feedback to the creating user.

That's just one basic example of hundreds (perhaps thousands) that need to be dealt with.

We've made some inroads towards this goal, but we still have a LOT of work yet to do. So this is something that's still quite a ways off from being exposed to users.

As an interim solution, we've been providing significantly more flexibility to let users customize elements of characters directly within the product, which I believe has greatly reduced the need for the editing system. We have more enhancements along these lines planned, which should allow users to more readily fill in the remaining gaps.

Ok thanks Duggan for the post! Seems they have a decent idea (good time/resource wise) to this problem.

As a suggestion though, people will still want to add custom/fan-made content so perhaps a contractor service through the volunteers and/or a quarterly forum thread hosting a formated submission log of user files to be tested prior to acceptance to HLO server. This would also help in reducing the amount of submissions and would allow more communal working with VDFC's and LoneWolf development. I for one am better for testing then creating, but I have made my own datasets.

Considering the risk involved it would be the cheaper solution to such an endeavor. However I am really looking forward to the additional flexibilities being offered as I personally like being able to mod a character caused by DM ruling without needing to resort to the editor (this is rare in my case)!

Basically, this is an App, not a Program.

The move to online only Apps is a trend that was ongoing well before Herolab made the leap. I imagine that the old program needed a lot of work to adjust to the new realities and better implementation of the code to work across multiple gaming systems. As an aid to create and update characters, it is also limited (though it is all I ever wanted) in scope compared to what the App is doing and the future plans of the online tool has.

It would have been nice if Code Monkey could have gotten their character forge programme off the ground after the loss of the Etools license they expertly fixed from Fluid. There are some that still use the PC Gen tools for PF1.

My preference would have been a new program rather than the online App. With improvements and overall better performance of the basics, though, it is a good character creation tool. There is also the fact that one can adjust and use it during play, provided an internet connection is available, though this was already being done by the Ipad program that was snipped into App form.

The biggest advantage to the App is the ability to use any device to access it, since it is browser based instead of legacy based on Windows or Mac. The biggest disadvantage is that User Content, or other content not license through Lonewolf (such as the Psionic books in PF1) that users have ported over in the past, is not possible with the App metrics.

As an example of a in-game conceptually simple effect that is likely to require a good to great deal of effort to manage manually, but is handled fully by some scripting in HL Classic: A magic item (say, armor, or bracers) that reduces the effective weight of all metal items carried by 60% - unless of course the item is in an extra-dimensional container... (yes, I have implemented this) A simpler version of this would be a container that r5educes the weighrt of the items it contains (rather than having a fixed weight for the container, no matter what it contains) Again, fairly simple to create this in HL Classic but problematical in HLO.

As for infinite loops and other errors, it is fairly simply accounted for by limiting the execution to just the characters that have included the custom resource - and limit the execution context to be shared only amongst users in the same game together (or individuals if not actively playing with others) Yes, this would require additional administration pages and etc. but it is a commonm enough feature sedt that has been resolved many times over throughout the public and private webs. It seems to me that it would be well worth the effort...? It would also allow for release of 'beta' features/items/etc. to the public, or to a group of testers, that use the production HLO along with a 'resource pack' containing the features/items/code/etc. to give feedback on... You could eben, if you really had to for monetary reasons, chartge for isolated execution contexts separate from the primary HLO instance... probably easier to implement, but less used-friendly and flexible. Good for in-house development instancwes, test instances, etc. as well. {shrug} Just a thought.