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-   -   Did I miss something? (http://forums.wolflair.com/showthread.php?t=59261)

Toblakai October 3rd, 2017 07:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EightBitz (Post 256817)
You think it serves no purpose to provide critical feedback?

About missing dates? No, no purpose, well I guess it allows the poster to vent.

Dhrakken October 3rd, 2017 07:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toblakai (Post 256834)
About missing dates? No, no purpose, well I guess it allows the poster to vent.

Wasn't the true purpose of the "missing" thread to ask for an update on content market? Yes, there was some venting but you can hardly blame anyone at this point.

EightBitz October 3rd, 2017 07:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toblakai (Post 256834)
About missing dates? No, no purpose, well I guess it allows the poster to vent.

Well, no matter. They can delete things here if they want, but they can't delete them from Google's cache, and they can't delete our screen shots.

And they're not the only ones who have Facebook and Twitter accounts.

Toblakai October 3rd, 2017 07:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EightBitz (Post 256837)
Well, no matter. They can delete things here if they want, but they can't delete them from Google's cache, and they can't delete our screen shots.

And they're not the only ones who have Facebook and Twitter accounts.

I don't think they care about people having pictures or google cache. I have been on many forums and when a thread gets toxic and serves no use the threads get deleted. It's a very common thing in forums.

They are not hiding that they are late, you can find that info everywhere. But a thread dedicated to it is not needed.

EightBitz October 3rd, 2017 07:54 AM

Our opinions differ on this issue.

kbs666 October 3rd, 2017 08:26 AM

I am as big a fan of LWD as there is. But the reality is the CM has been promised since January. Then it was promised again for PaizoCon in May and again for GenCon in August and then again for early September. We've now missed that latest deadline with no news and we all know LWD is heavily involved with HLO which is likely diverting RW resources as that is a much higher profile project (not that I begrudge them wanting to get HLO out the door, Starfinder support is a profit source). I think I speak for a lot of the fans on the forum when I say that some communication from LWD would go a long way towards calming us down. We had this same discussion with Rob and BJ the last time resentment reached this level and I thought they had agreed to improve communication with the community.

Farnaby October 3rd, 2017 08:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toblakai (Post 256838)
I don't think they care about people having pictures or google cache. I have been on many forums and when a thread gets toxic and serves no use the threads get deleted. It's a very common thing in forums.

They are not hiding that they are late, you can find that info everywhere. But a thread dedicated to it is not needed.

Interesting opinion.

I read the thread last night and was interested in how LWD would answer, didn't see a thread deletion coming at all.

What annoys me is your declaration of that thread being toxic.
That wasn't toxic, if anything it was medium to severe disappointment.
No names were called, no-one was verbally or physically threatened.

If anything it was more a wake-up call to LWD that several customers, I'd even go so far as to say loyal customers, are exasperated.
So saying that the thread was of no use is a misconception.

I myself rarely comment on the forums, I'm more of a lurker, but now I'd like to go on record here as saying that I am quite peeved at the lack of reaction we RW customers are getting.

Also I read in a thread in the HeroLab Support forum:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rob: (Post 255533)
Subject: Why did we dive into creating Hero Lab Online while Realm Works was still not complete?

The answer to this one is simple. Hero Lab pays the bills and there was a solid business case for pursuing Hero Lab Online.

The development of Realm Works is subsidized by revenues from Hero Lab. Until that changes, Hero Lab will remain our top priority, and any other pursuit is inherently secondary. For those who have voiced displeasure about our prioritization of the Content Market over other features for Realm Works, that dependency remains a critical factor. Once the Content Market brings in sufficient revenue to make Realm Works entirely self-sufficient, the dynamic between the two products completely changes. That’s why the Content Market has been our focus.

We’ve been talking about Hero Lab Online for a few years now. We even delayed starting work on it due to my desire to focus on Realm Works, much to the chagrin of some around here. However, we reached a point where the business case for Hero Lab Online trumped my desire to complete Realm Works first, so we had to move forward on it. While the Hero Lab and Realm Works teams are substantially distinct, there is some overlap (our server guru and me). Assigning those two resources to Hero Lab Online slowed things down further for Realm Works. It was a tough choice for me, personally, but it was necessary. Thankfully, we’re almost across the finish line on the Realm Works Content Market, and Hero Lab Online is coming together nicely. So we’re in good shape with both products.

This was from 6. September. Now I rarely go into the HeroLab forums, so why wasn't this posted also in the Realmworks forums. The thing is, I understand this, if you need to keep LWD running with HeroLab to fund RW then go for it. But please, please tell us. I, and others, have kept the faith so long, please don't abuse it.

So, having got that off my chest, I hope this will not be declared "toxic" and get deleted. [/s]

MaxSupernova October 3rd, 2017 08:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kbs666 (Post 256840)
But the reality is the CM has been promised since January.

7+ years of development.

4 1/2 years since the Kickstarter.

Toblakai October 3rd, 2017 08:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Farnaby (Post 256841)
Interesting opinion.
I read the thread last night and was interested in how LWD would answer, didn't see a thread deletion coming at all.

What annoys me is your declaration of that thread being toxic.
That wasn't toxic, if anything it was medium to severe disappointment.
No names were called, no-one was verbally or physically threatened.

Well compared to a lot of other forums, nothing on here is toxic. But as far as threads on an LWD forum, it was on the higher end of toxic. A lot of forums would just close the thread, they probably should have done that instead.

Dark Lord Galen October 3rd, 2017 10:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toblakai (Post 256843)
Well compared to a lot of other forums, nothing on here is toxic.

True

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toblakai (Post 256843)
But as far as threads on an LWD forum, it was on the higher end of toxic.

Not True, and sorry your 140 or so posts and a user since 2016 hardly qualifies you to make such an assumption as to "higher end" here. When long time users even begin to voice their dissatisfaction, LWD should take notice. These are the people that their business lifeblood depends on. Not to imply new users don't or shouldn't have a voice, they should, but not all voices carry the same weight. The survey should have taught LWD that lesson. (whole other topic there)

Farnaby, Max, and Many others have rightly pointed to facts, not opinions. If LWD (or anyone else for that matter) finds them harsh, well sorry, sometimes the truth is just that, unvarnished , no malice directed, black and white harsh.

And like Farnaby, I have downscaled my participation on the forums since Liz's departure. Not as any refection on BJ (spoke with her at Gencon on this very issue as a matter of fact), but on the lack of communication by LWD and the perception of some that we "have beat the horse to death".

Well, yes, the horse certainly has taken its lashes, why? Could it be because the problem is still unsolved? And no amount of pretending that it has been solved will help. Denial phrases of "just moving on" nor unfulfilled promises of "soon" are curing it. Pretending a problem doesn't exist doesn't make the problem go away.

Even with the hope that it solves itself. the end product users of ANY product have a right to reasonable expectations. KEY word here is "reasonable" and it is poorly defined on both sides. Is it reasonable to expect "future plans" to be fulfilled already? OR is it more reasonable to expect items that were already agreed to? Shown, Displayed, earmarked for priority? Each of us may certainly answer differently....

The bottom line is something that is pretty much accepted wisdom here in Texas,,,, Silence is Consent.
For users to be silent when they feel cheated, disgruntled, or ignored give those doing such actions consent to continue. When LWD feels the community is just whining, being argumentative, or simply doesn't understand their hurdles and challenges but yet remains silent, sorry, they to give consent. Consent to those that would come to their own conclusions or even those ones that feel the need to simply fan the flames, in unfortunate extreme cases.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toblakai (Post 256843)
A lot of forums would just close the thread, they probably should have done that instead.

Also true, censorship is not usually the best course of action... it also leads to silence...

2cp
DLG


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