40k Ork datafile

[Wlist at pekan.demon.co.u]

Hi,

Before I start, I'd just like to thank Colen for all his work on the
datafiles (40k and mordheim that I know of). As an ork player there are
certain combos that I use to a lot. People will be aware of the 16 item
display limit and to avoid this problem I rewrite the datafile with said
combos so that only one item slot is taken rather than 2 or 3 separate
ones. Of course everytime Colen updates the files I have to redo this in
ABCreate. Being idle I reasoned that it should be possible to do these
combos in a separate file so that they are not overwritten whenever I
upgrade. Any views on the best way of doing this before I go and fiddle
about and get it all wrong as usual :)

BTW Colen what is the best way of sending you amended datafiles for you
to look at as regards possible changes. For example I have (but yet to
redo it due to your latest upgrade) amended the 40k ork file so that
vehicles automatically restricted to either 5 or 10 point armour upgrade
or a user choice of 5/10 points for the vehicle that falls in that
category. I have to keep reminding myself how I did it each time so
depends on how energetic I'm feeling :) Of course I'll go check and
you'll have done this already!


Cheers
Versif

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[demandred at skrill.org]

One fine day in the middle of the night, Versif
<Wlist@pekan.demon.co.uk> got up to write:

>Hi,
>
>Before I start, I'd just like to thank Colen for all his work on the
>datafiles (40k and mordheim that I know of). As an ork player there are
>certain combos that I use to a lot. People will be aware of the 16 item
>display limit and to avoid this problem I rewrite the datafile with said
>combos so that only one item slot is taken rather than 2 or 3 separate
>ones. Of course everytime Colen updates the files I have to redo this in
>ABCreate. Being idle I reasoned that it should be possible to do these
>combos in a separate file so that they are not overwritten whenever I
>upgrade. Any views on the best way of doing this before I go and fiddle
>about and get it all wrong as usual :)

If you're having problems with large units, just disable item display
(Settings Menu -> Interface Settings -> Show Equipment in Roster).
You'll be able to add equipment to units, but you won't see it.

To actually answer your question, create a new .40k datafile with
ABCreator and put the items in there. As long as you don't let AB delete
it when you add new files, your items will always be available.

>BTW Colen what is the best way of sending you amended datafiles for you
>to look at as regards possible changes. For example I have (but yet to
>redo it due to your latest upgrade) amended the 40k ork file so that
>vehicles automatically restricted to either 5 or 10 point armour upgrade
>or a user choice of 5/10 points for the vehicle that falls in that
>category. I have to keep reminding myself how I did it each time so
>depends on how energetic I'm feeling :) Of course I'll go check and
>you'll have done this already!

Restricting the armour plate choice would be easy if it was applied to
the basic cost of the vehicle. Unfortunately, if the vehicle plus all
vehicle upgrades costs more than 50 points, you use the 10pt version,
and you can't restrict items by total cost in army builder. Sorry. :(

--
Colen 'Not Colin' McAlister | License to Skrill
Email: demandred@skrill.org | Visit http://www.skrill.org/ today!
-----------------------------+------------------------------------
"Dovie'andi se tovya sagain" - Robert Jordan's Wheel Of Time

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In this article Colen 'Not Colin' McAlister & The Skrills
<demandred@skrill.org> wrote
>
>If you're having problems with large units, just disable item display
>(Settings Menu -> Interface Settings -> Show Equipment in Roster).
>You'll be able to add equipment to units, but you won't see it.

Yep, but I like to see what I've selected, cos I'm that way inclined :)
The main problem tends to be the warboss plus retinue plus dok plus mek
plus trukk but can also occur on gunz when I'm loading them up :)
>
>To actually answer your question, create a new .40k datafile with
>ABCreator and put the items in there. As long as you don't let AB delete
>it when you add new files, your items will always be available.

Did it after posting just to see if that was the way it was done, but
the only problem (minor) is that I have to alter the items in the
orks.40k file so that can't select single option and combined option.
But only altering that aspect every upgrade is easier rather than
redoing the combos.
>
>
>Restricting the armour plate choice would be easy if it was applied to
>the basic cost of the vehicle. Unfortunately, if the vehicle plus all
>vehicle upgrades costs more than 50 points, you use the 10pt version,
>and you can't restrict items by total cost in army builder. Sorry. :(

Ahh, but you can and I have. Well sort of ;) I created a third choice
which makes use of the user: function so can manually set at either 5 or
10 points. The dread, all the looted vehicles except the Rhino can only
take the 10 point armour due to their base cost. The killer kans can
only take the 5 point armour (cost excludes the cost of the armour
upgrade) and the rest (trukk, warbuggies/trakks) take the third option
which allows the user to select either 5 or 10 points as the cost
depending on whether cost is over 51 points including upgrades except
for the armour upgrade. But it probably isn't worth bothering with
really since you still have to make a choice for some of the vehicles.
But it does mean that I will get some of them right without having to
think about it. But it does while away the odd moment thinking through
the required type designations. Of course I always do it the hard way
and forget that ireg: would enable me to simplify the type designations.
Of course you don't even need the third choice since could ensure that
both options appear for the appropriate vehicles and only the right one
for the others.
>
Another point is that some of the entries need an icst:each entry,
killerkans, warbuggies/trakks, Rhinos, as you can select more than one
and give them all the same wargear but doesn't add the wargear cost to
each vehicle. Of course you can add alternatives but I like small print
outs :)

Thanks for the comments. Although I can mess around with ABCreate I
can't match or come anywhere near your ability! BTW I laughed my socks
off at the skrill option comment "We could tell you, but then we'd have
to kill you. Sorry." Brilliant solution to a problem that I'd been
unable to solve.

Cheers

Versif

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[demandred at skrill.org]

One fine day in the middle of the night, Versif
<Wlist@pekan.demon.co.uk> got up to write:

>In this article Colen 'Not Colin' McAlister & The Skrills
><demandred@skrill.org> wrote
>>
>>If you're having problems with large units, just disable item display
>>(Settings Menu -> Interface Settings -> Show Equipment in Roster).
>>You'll be able to add equipment to units, but you won't see it.
>
>Yep, but I like to see what I've selected, cos I'm that way inclined :)
>The main problem tends to be the warboss plus retinue plus dok plus mek
>plus trukk but can also occur on gunz when I'm loading them up :)

If you create the unit without wargear first, it should fit all on one
page. Then give the bottom unit wargear, then the second-bottom unit,
then the third-bottom, and so on. That's the best it gets ATM :)

>>To actually answer your question, create a new .40k datafile with
>>ABCreator and put the items in there. As long as you don't let AB delete
>>it when you add new files, your items will always be available.
>
>Did it after posting just to see if that was the way it was done, but
>the only problem (minor) is that I have to alter the items in the
>orks.40k file so that can't select single option and combined option.
>But only altering that aspect every upgrade is easier rather than
>redoing the combos.

How do you mean?

>>Restricting the armour plate choice would be easy if it was applied to
>>the basic cost of the vehicle. Unfortunately, if the vehicle plus all
>>vehicle upgrades costs more than 50 points, you use the 10pt version,
>>and you can't restrict items by total cost in army builder. Sorry. :(
>
>Ahh, but you can and I have. Well sort of ;) I created a third choice
>which makes use of the user: function so can manually set at either 5 or
>10 points. The dread, all the looted vehicles except the Rhino can only
>take the 10 point armour due to their base cost.

That's not too bad an idea. If I can convince Rob to change something in
v1.4d, I'll put it in :)

>Another point is that some of the entries need an icst:each entry,
>killerkans, warbuggies/trakks, Rhinos, as you can select more than one
>and give them all the same wargear but doesn't add the wargear cost to
>each vehicle. Of course you can add alternatives but I like small print
>outs :)

Good point, I'll get it added into the next version.

>Thanks for the comments. Although I can mess around with ABCreate I
>can't match or come anywhere near your ability!

Practice makes perfect :)

>BTW I laughed my socks
>off at the skrill option comment "We could tell you, but then we'd have
>to kill you. Sorry." Brilliant solution to a problem that I'd been
>unable to solve.

You actually worked out what it was meant to do? I'm impressed :)

--
Colen 'Not Colin' McAlister | License to Skrill
Email: demandred@skrill.org | Visit http://www.skrill.org/ today!
-----------------------------+------------------------------------
"Dovie'andi se tovya sagain" - Robert Jordan's Wheel Of Time

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[Wlist at pekan.demon.co.u]

In this article Colen 'Not Colin' McAlister & The Skrills
<demandred@skrill.org> wrote

>If you create the unit without wargear first, it should fit all on one
>page. Then give the bottom unit wargear, then the second-bottom unit,
>then the third-bottom, and so on. That's the best it gets ATM :)

This is true, but I can't resist the siren call of just tweaking that
retinue or whatever. I thought about this some more and realised that
you could have the retinue as a separate entry with a requirement that a
warboss is selected, easy enough to programme. This would reduce the
number of items under the warboss and overcome part of the problem (cos
I always tool up my nobz, er sorry warboss).

>>Did it after posting just to see if that was the way it was done, but
>>the only problem (minor) is that I have to alter the items in the
>>orks.40k file so that can't select single option and combined option.
>>But only altering that aspect every upgrade is easier rather than
>>redoing the combos.
>
>How do you mean?

One of the combos that I use is more dakka and shootier combined. I want
it so that if I select this combo the single entries (and vice versa)
are hidden. I set blasta, dakka and shootier to f,g and h respectively
in the conflict categories and the combo to g&h so that selecting any of
them hides the other selection, after all it can only be made shootier
once, not twice etc. The blasta, dakka and shootier combo is set to
f,g&h. Of course I really ought to combine this with an ammo runt for
that cheesy reroll to overcome the blasta problem ;) Another combo is
bionic bonce and 'eavy armour, this gives a 3+ save without the
limitations of mega-armour. Both bionic bonce and 'eavy armour already
have the conflict options set in your file so my file will work
irrespective of the upgrade (unless major of course). The kustom
upgrades for blasta etc. currently don't have any conflict options set
so I have to reset them every time there is an upgrade. But as I said,
this is much easier than having to re-enter the combos. Hope that makes
it clear :)
>
>>>Restricting the armour plate choice would be easy if it was applied to
>>>the basic cost of the vehicle. Unfortunately, if the vehicle plus all
>>>vehicle upgrades costs more than 50 points, you use the 10pt version,
>>>and you can't restrict items by total cost in army builder. Sorry. :(
>>
>>Ahh, but you can and I have. Well sort of ;) I created a third choice
>>which makes use of the user: function so can manually set at either 5 or
>>10 points. The dread, all the looted vehicles except the Rhino can only
>>take the 10 point armour due to their base cost.
>
>That's not too bad an idea. If I can convince Rob to change something in
>v1.4d, I'll put it in :)

Yeah, like restrict it to a choice of set values and make it more
obvious how it works (as in not clear initially that you have to select
the plus button) and clear up the display of the user: function, the
text tends to overprint the name of the option.
>
>>Another point is that some of the entries need an icst:each entry,
>>killerkans, warbuggies/trakks, Rhinos, as you can select more than one
>>and give them all the same wargear but doesn't add the wargear cost to
>>each vehicle. Of course you can add alternatives but I like small print
>>outs :)
>
>Good point, I'll get it added into the next version.

Thanks.
>
>
>>BTW I laughed my socks
>>off at the skrill option comment "We could tell you, but then we'd have
>>to kill you. Sorry." Brilliant solution to a problem that I'd been
>>unable to solve.
>
>You actually worked out what it was meant to do? I'm impressed :)

Yep but took me a couple of reads to work it out, being a slow old
duffer ;) I subsequently used a similar version in a file but realised I
didn't need to copy the skrill option, simply used an existing option
which the unit couldn't select to make the comparative test.

I assume from the earlier correspondence that you propose to set up
another group that will mail out the upgrades once posted. Please let me
know when it is up and running. It will save me running round looking
for the latest update :) assuming that is the case would it also be
possible for the author/keeper of the whfb datafiles to post there as
well. I know many of the egroup groups keep the various copies in the
vault section but it would make it easier for all concerned using
egroups in this way.

Cheers

Versif, Nightgoblin backstabber and all round coward, but nice with it.
Kirkby-in-Ashfield, Nottinghamshire - whaddya mean, Robin Hood wasn't a goblin?

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[demandred at skrill.org]

One fine day in the middle of the night, Versif
<Wlist@pekan.demon.co.uk> got up to write:

>In this article Colen 'Not Colin' McAlister & The Skrills
><demandred@skrill.org> wrote
>
>>If you create the unit without wargear first, it should fit all on one
>>page. Then give the bottom unit wargear, then the second-bottom unit,
>>then the third-bottom, and so on. That's the best it gets ATM :)
>
>This is true, but I can't resist the siren call of just tweaking that
>retinue or whatever. I thought about this some more and realised that
>you could have the retinue as a separate entry with a requirement that a
>warboss is selected, easy enough to programme. This would reduce the
>number of items under the warboss and overcome part of the problem (cos
>I always tool up my nobz, er sorry warboss).

Hmm... no, it's 'nasty'. :)

Various special characters can also take Retinues as well. If I put in
"If you have a Retinue, you've got to have a Warboss" rule, that would
give an error if you had one of them without a Warboss. It could
probably be done, but it would be unclear whose retinue was whose.

I'm also planning a cunning modification to the Ork files, if I can
throw my sister off the computer long enough to do it, which requires
the parent / child relationship.

>One of the combos that I use is more dakka and shootier combined. I want
>it so that if I select this combo the single entries (and vice versa)
>are hidden. I set blasta, dakka and shootier to f,g and h respectively
>in the conflict categories and the combo to g&h so that selecting any of
>them hides the other selection, after all it can only be made shootier
>once, not twice etc. The blasta, dakka and shootier combo is set to
>f,g&h. Of course I really ought to combine this with an ammo runt for
>that cheesy reroll to overcome the blasta problem ;) Another combo is
>bionic bonce and 'eavy armour, this gives a 3+ save without the
>limitations of mega-armour. Both bionic bonce and 'eavy armour already
>have the conflict options set in your file so my file will work
>irrespective of the upgrade (unless major of course). The kustom
>upgrades for blasta etc. currently don't have any conflict options set
>so I have to reset them every time there is an upgrade. But as I said,
>this is much easier than having to re-enter the combos. Hope that makes
>it clear :)

Have you tried using the 'unit save' and 'unit load' facilities? If you
use a lot of similar units every time, they might be of help.

I'm afraid that I don't think I can make your problem 'easier' without
majorly changing the files :(

>>>>Restricting the armour plate choice would be easy if it was applied to
>>>>the basic cost of the vehicle. Unfortunately, if the vehicle plus all
>>>>vehicle upgrades costs more than 50 points, you use the 10pt version,
>>>>and you can't restrict items by total cost in army builder. Sorry. :(
>>>
>>>Ahh, but you can and I have. Well sort of ;) I created a third choice
>>>which makes use of the user: function so can manually set at either 5 or
>>>10 points. The dread, all the looted vehicles except the Rhino can only
>>>take the 10 point armour due to their base cost.
>>
>>That's not too bad an idea. If I can convince Rob to change something in
>>v1.4d, I'll put it in :)
>
>Yeah, like restrict it to a choice of set values and make it more
>obvious how it works (as in not clear initially that you have to select
>the plus button) and clear up the display of the user: function, the
>text tends to overprint the name of the option.

Indeed. Well, it shouldn't unless you're writing essays there...

>I assume from the earlier correspondence that you propose to set up
>another group that will mail out the upgrades once posted. Please let me
>know when it is up and running.

See another email...

--
Colen 'Not Colin' McAlister | License to Skrill
Email: demandred@skrill.org | Visit http://www.skrill.org/ today!
-----------------------------+------------------------------------
"Dovie'andi se tovya sagain" - Robert Jordan's Wheel Of Time

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[mop at cybergap.net]

>One of the combos that I use is more dakka and shootier combined. I want
>it so that if I select this combo the single entries (and vice versa)
>are hidden. I set blasta, dakka and shootier to f,g and h respectively
>in the conflict categories and the combo to g&h so that selecting any of
>them hides the other selection, after all it can only be made shootier
>once, not twice etc. The blasta, dakka and shootier combo is set to
>f,g&h. Of course I really ought to combine this with an ammo runt for
>that cheesy reroll to overcome the blasta problem ;) Another combo is
>bionic bonce and 'eavy armour, this gives a 3+ save without the
>limitations of mega-armour. Both bionic bonce and 'eavy armour already
>have the conflict options set in your file so my file will work
>irrespective of the upgrade (unless major of course). The kustom
>upgrades for blasta etc. currently don't have any conflict options set
>so I have to reset them every time there is an upgrade. But as I said,
>this is much easier than having to re-enter the combos. Hope that makes
>it clear :)
>>
Why not add a new option in your items file to include "Blasta, Dakka,
Shootier Shooter" as one item with the points and discription all in one
place to condence it. By making it one choice you save a little of time as
well.

Please visit my current auctions on E-bay

http://cgi3.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewListedItems&userid=mop_1


Kevin

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In this article Colen 'Not Colin' McAlister & The Skrills
<demandred@skrill.org> wrote
>Hmm... no, it's 'nasty'. :)
>
>Various special characters can also take Retinues as well. If I put in
>"If you have a Retinue, you've got to have a Warboss" rule, that would
>give an error if you had one of them without a Warboss. It could
>probably be done, but it would be unclear whose retinue was whose.
>
>I'm also planning a cunning modification to the Ork files, if I can
>throw my sister off the computer long enough to do it, which requires
>the parent / child relationship.

Nice to hear about the mod, throw your sister off [gently ;)]. I thought
the retinue problem could be addressed by the reqd: function under
external attributes for each retinue. The rule is entered in the
retinue's external function. That is - reqd:unit=orWarbss@1u:1u for the
warbosses retinue and reqd:unit=orPainbs@1u:1u for the Painboss
bodyguard and reqd:unit=orMekbod@1u:1u for the Big Mek body guard. All 3
would require limiting to one unit as well. Actually it could also be
reqd:unit=orWarbss@1u:1m given that the leader is only 1 model :)

Doesn't seem that nasty ;) I may try it out just to see if it works.
>
>Have you tried using the 'unit save' and 'unit load' facilities? If you
>use a lot of similar units every time, they might be of help.
Found that the units wouldn't load after some upgrades :( So I prefer
this method.
>
>I'm afraid that I don't think I can make your problem 'easier' without
>majorly changing the files :(

Not a problem :)The changes required now are simple.
>
>>
>>Yeah, like restrict it to a choice of set values and make it more
>>obvious how it works (as in not clear initially that you have to select
>>the plus button) and clear up the display of the user: function, the
>>text tends to overprint the name of the option.
>
>Indeed. Well, it shouldn't unless you're writing essays there...

Damn, found out again. No, just "select 5 or 10 points"
>
>

Versif

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In this article kevin fuhrman <mop@cybergap.net> wrote
> Why not add a new option in your items file to include "Blasta, Dakka,
>Shootier Shooter" as one item with the points and discription all in one
>place to condence it. By making it one choice you save a little of time as
>well.

Indeed, that is what I used to do, but every upgrade it has to be
redone. By putting it in a separate file it survives the upgrade, as
long as I don't select the "delete files that are not upgraded" option.

Cheers
Versif

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In this article Versif <Wlist@pekan.demon.co.uk> wrote

>Doesn't seem that nasty ;) I may try it out just to see if it works.

And of course it does, and it doesn't. Which is to say that it works as
it should in requiring a warboss to be taken if selected, but introduces
the problem of taking up a HQ slot. Do I get 5 out of 10? Changing the
permitted HQ number would be viable if I also restricted the warboss to
0-1 (or 2 if assume that lack of existing restriction is correct). I'm
not really fussed about the other two retinues since rarely take them
and then the 16 item limit doesn't really kick in for cyborks and rarely
for mekboyz. Setting the HQ to 1-3 or 1-4 (depending on number of
permitted warbosses) would sort it. :)

Cheers
Versif, Nightgoblin backstabber and all round coward, but nice with it.
Kirkby-in-Ashfield, Nottinghamshire - whaddya mean, Robin Hood wasn't a goblin?

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[demandred at skrill.org]

One fine day in the middle of the night, Versif
<Wlist@pekan.demon.co.uk> got up to write:

>In this article Colen 'Not Colin' McAlister & The Skrills
><demandred@skrill.org> wrote
>>Hmm... no, it's 'nasty'. :)
>>
>>Various special characters can also take Retinues as well. If I put in
>>"If you have a Retinue, you've got to have a Warboss" rule, that would
>>give an error if you had one of them without a Warboss. It could
>>probably be done, but it would be unclear whose retinue was whose.
>>
>>I'm also planning a cunning modification to the Ork files, if I can
>>throw my sister off the computer long enough to do it, which requires
>>the parent / child relationship.
>
>Nice to hear about the mod, throw your sister off [gently ;)]. I thought
>the retinue problem could be addressed by the reqd: function under
>external attributes for each retinue. The rule is entered in the
>retinue's external function. That is - reqd:unit=orWarbss@1u:1u for the
>warbosses retinue and reqd:unit=orPainbs@1u:1u for the Painboss
>bodyguard and reqd:unit=orMekbod@1u:1u for the Big Mek body guard. All 3
>would require limiting to one unit as well. Actually it could also be
>reqd:unit=orWarbss@1u:1m given that the leader is only 1 model :)

If I was going to do it, that's how it would be done. :)

>Doesn't seem that nasty ;) I may try it out just to see if it works.

Feel free :)

>>Have you tried using the 'unit save' and 'unit load' facilities? If you
>>use a lot of similar units every time, they might be of help.
>Found that the units wouldn't load after some upgrades :( So I prefer
>this method.

}:<

Sorry about that :P

>>>Yeah, like restrict it to a choice of set values and make it more
>>>obvious how it works (as in not clear initially that you have to select
>>>the plus button) and clear up the display of the user: function, the
>>>text tends to overprint the name of the option.
>>
>>Indeed. Well, it shouldn't unless you're writing essays there...
>
>Damn, found out again. No, just "select 5 or 10 points"

Why not just replace it with "5 / 10"? Concise and understandable, IMAO.

--
Colen 'Not Colin' McAlister | License to Skrill
Email: demandred@skrill.org | Visit http://www.skrill.org/ today!
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