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rob
June 2nd, 2007, 10:04 PM
Greetings,

At some point in June, probably about three weeks from now, we'll be
releasing another update for HL. This next update will focus on
simplifying the editing of custom material, adding the flexibility to
easily leverage many of the special wrinkles introduced by the myriad
d20 supplements, and a few nifty new features. Once we get the next
release out, we'll be focusing heavily on wrapping up and finalizing
the data files for other game systems, so there will likely be a
substantial period before the next d20 update will occur after the
late-June release.

The reason for this post is to give you the chance to sound off
regarding any feature or change that you feel is critical we add in
the next HL update. All suggestions should be either focused on d20
support or generic to the product. Suggestions that we work on other
game systems are NOT appropriate for this next update, so please
don't do that. :-)

If there is something important we need to add, let us know here on
this thread. We'll give serious consideration to all suggestions. The
final determination will hinge largely on the utility of the feature,
the complexity involved in implementing it, and what other stuff we
have planned that will need to be dropped to allow for the new
feature. So your suggestions may not make it into the next update,
but they will definitely be noted for the future if we can't add them now.

Thanks in advance for your suggestions!

-Rob

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Rob Bowes (rob@wolflair.com) (408) 927-9880
Lone Wolf Development www.wolflair.com

dartnet
June 3rd, 2007, 03:17 PM
Ok here is mine.

Add the ability to adjust the initiative modifier in the in play adjustments.

Add the ability to add class skills in the in play adjustments.

With those 2 additions you can fake most non listed feats.

Add a custom race, class, skill, spell, special abilities and template option so that some one could chose one on the fly. Like they can a custom feat.

Add stats for familiars/animal companions.

Add Psionics.

Thanks,

Lawful_g
June 7th, 2007, 05:25 AM
More tutorials/documentation to help me learn XML would be nice... My brain fails me for the rest. I'll try and think of something more.

seanabrady
June 7th, 2007, 07:14 AM
I thought I had posted, guess it didn't go through. Let me try again:

I would also like to see the ability to add class skills in play adjustments. Stats for Companions/mounts would be cool, especially if they could be modified.

I would love to have a generic counter in in play adjustments as well. Something with just a description field and a counter. Could be used for anything...tracking wounds to a mount or companion, anything.

I would really like to see the Epic stuff from the SRD added. We seem to be playing a lot of Epic level stuff recently.

thanks,

Sean

Lawful_g
June 7th, 2007, 07:43 AM
Ah, here is something that I am not sure if it can be done already. I am creating a class that gets special abilities (called Knacks) and also Bonus Feats. Is there a way to make 2 seperate pick tables in the class panel, one for the bonus feats and one for the knacks? If not, can you create a way? I don't want to have to pick bonus feats and knacks from the same table because they are gained at different levels.

Culhwch
June 7th, 2007, 06:15 PM
I'd like to see support for monstrous classes, epic level stuff, and an easier way to get some of the trickier stuff done in the editor.

For example, while we can use the editor to add a spell level to an existing caster, I had to do some manual editing of the file to add one divine caster level and one arcane caster level. I also had to manually edit the file to get a class to have access to fighter bonus feats; actually being able to choose which feats are a classes bonus feats would be a great extention of the editor.

Lawful_g
June 8th, 2007, 09:09 AM
I second that last one. I am adding the Sword of Righteousness from Book of Exalted Deeds, and they get a bonus exalted feat at each level. I haven't been able to complete the class because I can't figure out how to do a custom bonus feat list, even though it is extremely simple class otherwise.

Colen
June 8th, 2007, 05:33 PM
dartnet wrote:
>
>
> Ok here is mine.
>
> Add the ability to adjust the initiative modifier in the in play
> adjustments.
>
> Add the ability to add class skills in the in play adjustments.
>
> With those 2 additions you can fake most non listed feats.


This should be pretty reasonable to add.


> Add a custom race, class, skill, spell, special abilities and template
> option so that some one could chose one on the fly. Like they can a
> custom feat.


This is a good idea, but it has a couple of issues that we haven't
solved yet. For a feat it makes sense, since you just need to type in
one thing, the name. But for a race or a class, there's dozens of pieces
of information that would need to be set. And then once you've done it,
there's no good way to save it out and use it again on another hero.


> Add stats for familiars/animal companions.


Unfortunately, this is a big enough can of worms that I'm not sure it's
feasible for the next couple of weeks. The problem is that to do it
"properly", we'll need to add a whole new "Companions" tab which can
display one or more companions properly (not just familiars, but also
animal companions, mounts, and potentially humanoid followers). Which
means we need to enter all the statistics for all those entities, as
well as defining how they can be displayed.

All in all, it's a big job that I don't think we're ready for yet. It's
definitely on our list, though.


> Add Psionics.


I should be tackling this next week. :-)


Thanks for your feedback!


--
Colen McAlister (colen@wolflair.com)
Chief Engineer, Lone Wolf Development
http://www.wolflair.com/

Colen
June 8th, 2007, 05:35 PM
seanabrady wrote:

> I would love to have a generic counter in in play adjustments as well.
> Something with just a description field and a counter. Could be used for
> anything...tracking wounds to a mount or companion, anything.


Very good idea. I'll get it added.


> I would really like to see the Epic stuff from the SRD added. We seem to
> be playing a lot of Epic level stuff recently.


Epic stuff is definitely on our list, but I don't think it'll make it
into the next update. Sorry! :(


--
Colen McAlister (colen@wolflair.com)
Chief Engineer, Lone Wolf Development
http://www.wolflair.com/

Colen
June 8th, 2007, 05:35 PM
Lawful_g wrote:
>
>
> Ah, here is something that I am not sure if it can be done already. I am
> creating a class that gets special abilities (called Knacks) and also
> Bonus Feats. Is there a way to make 2 seperate pick tables in the class
> panel, one for the bonus feats and one for the knacks? If not, can you
> create a way? I don't want to have to pick bonus feats and knacks from
> the same table because they are gained at different levels.


That should be possible. I'll see if I can unlock this for the next release.


--
Colen McAlister (colen@wolflair.com)
Chief Engineer, Lone Wolf Development
http://www.wolflair.com/

Colen
June 8th, 2007, 05:39 PM
Culhwch wrote:
>
>
> I'd like to see support for monstrous classes,


What do we need to do to support these? I was under the (perhaps
erroneous) impression that you could do these just like normal classes.


> epic level stuff, and an
> easier way to get some of the trickier stuff done in the editor.


We've added some improvements to the editor this week, to make it easier
to (for example) pick which weapon proficiencies a class has and which
attributes a skill is linked to.


> For example, while we can use the editor to add a spell level to an
> existing caster, I had to do some manual editing of the file to add one
> divine caster level and one arcane caster level.


You added Arcane and Divine spellcaster levels to the same class? How
did you do it? I didn't think that was possible :)


> I also had to manually
> edit the file to get a class to have access to fighter bonus feats;
> actually being able to choose which feats are a classes bonus feats
> would be a great extention of the editor.


We don't have a good solution for bonus feats yet, unfortunately. The
ideas we have outlined so far come under the category of "Would work
really well, we just need to spend 2 weeks working solidly on it and
doing nothing else" which is sub-optimal.


Thanks for your feedback!


--
Colen McAlister (colen@wolflair.com)
Chief Engineer, Lone Wolf Development
http://www.wolflair.com/

Lion_Knight
June 8th, 2007, 07:27 PM
I have a small suggestion that would be nice.

maybe a house rule or optional rule for action points.

Culhwch
June 8th, 2007, 10:02 PM
>>
>> I'd like to see support for monstrous classes,
>
>
>What do we need to do to support these? I was under the (perhaps
>erroneous) impression that you could do these just like normal classes.

Monstrous classes combine a monster's hit dice and level adjustment into a class. So, for example, a "centaur class" would be 6 levels, 4 of which add hit dice, skill points, etc. and 2 that do not, but could add other things (say going from a medium creature to a large creature for a centaur). If this currently can be done, that's cool. I would just need to figure out how to do it.

>
>> epic level stuff, and an
>> easier way to get some of the trickier stuff done in the editor.
>
>
>We've added some improvements to the editor this week, to make it >easier
>to (for example) pick which weapon proficiencies a class has and which
>attributes a skill is linked to.

Very cool!

>> For example, while we can use the editor to add a spell level to an
>> existing caster, I had to do some manual editing of the file to add one
>> divine caster level and one arcane caster level.
>
>
>You added Arcane and Divine spellcaster levels to the same class? How
>did you do it? I didn't think that was possible

Instead of the template the editor puts in for added magic levels, I changed the template to the Mystic Theurge template which lets you choose a divine and arcane spellcaster level to add. I had to edit the file manually as I didn't see a way to to it in the editor. Not that big of a deal, if I only have to do it once, but I have had to redo the class panel a couple times for that class, so I do have to remember to go in and change it.

>> I also had to manually
>> edit the file to get a class to have access to fighter bonus feats;
>> actually being able to choose which feats are a classes bonus feats
>> would be a great extention of the editor.
>
>
>We don't have a good solution for bonus feats yet, unfortunately. The
>ideas we have outlined so far come under the category of "Would work
>really well, we just need to spend 2 weeks working solidly on it and
>doing nothing else" which is sub-optimal.
>
>
>Thanks for your feedback!

Not a problem. Keep up the great work!

Culhwch
June 10th, 2007, 02:30 PM
>>
>> I'd like to see support for monstrous classes,
>
>
>What do we need to do to support these? I was under the (perhaps
>erroneous) impression that you could do these just like normal classes.

Monstrous classes combine a monster's hit dice and level adjustment into a class. So, for example, a "centaur class" would be 6 levels, 4 of which add hit dice, skill points, etc. and 2 that do not, but could add other things (say going from a medium creature to a large creature for a centaur). If this currently can be done, that's cool. I would just need to figure out how to do it.


Oh, and I should also mention that, unlike other classes, if you are taking levels in a monster class, you can't multiclass until you have taken all the levels in the monster class (so, for example, I can't take my first level of fighter until I've taken all 6 levels of centaur). Also, I can't take levels in any other monster class (so no 6th level centaur/5th level hill giant's running around).

Lawful_g
June 11th, 2007, 07:49 PM
I'm not sure how you'd implement it, but something for substitution levels? Right now I am making a second class for one of My PCs who has taken a substitution level that assumes he'll take all the available substitution levels, but in case I change my mind and decide to take the normal level at a later date I would have to re-design the class.

Lawful_g
June 12th, 2007, 09:23 PM
How about the ability to make custome materials, i.e. in the Dragonlance Campaign Setting there is no such thing as Mithral, instead there is Dragonmetal, which is similar but with a natural enhancement bonus. Adamantine is replaced by starmetal, so on and so forth. Certain sourcebooks have added new materials, like Green Steel in one of the Feindish codexs (I can't remember which) and Kheferite (sp?) from Sandstorm...

rob
June 13th, 2007, 02:26 AM
At 06:45 PM 6/8/2007, you wrote:
All in all, it's a big job that I don't think we're ready for yet. It's
definitely on our list, though.
Just to clarify. By "ready for yet", Colen is saying that we've got too many other things on our todo list that we want to get done first. We're not yet ready to stop work on everything else for the better part of a week to get this one capability added. There are other things that are more important still.

rob
June 13th, 2007, 02:33 AM
At 06:25 AM 6/7/2007, you wrote:
More tutorials/documentation to help me learn XML would be nice... My brain fails me for the rest. I'll try and think of something more.
Do you honestly mean you want docs on XML in general? Or do you want more docs on the XML structure of the HL data files? For the former, there are a myriad good resources available - both online and via books you can buy at the local computer store. For the later, I hear you. I want to be able to write the docs, but there just aren't enough hours in the day to get everything done right now. If I only had a clone, I'd be in great shape....

rob
June 13th, 2007, 02:43 AM
At 08:49 PM 6/11/2007, you wrote:
I'm not sure how you'd implement it, but something for substitution levels? Right now I am making a second class for one of My PCs who has taken a substitution level that assumes he'll take all the available substitution levels, but in case I change my mind and decide to take the normal level at a later date I would have to re-design the class.
This is something that we've mapped out how to solve, and it's not going to be all that difficult, provided I get one critical new thing added to the engine. Now I just have to get that added (amongst dozens of other things that are needed) so that Colen can integrate substitution level handling in the d20 data files. :-)

Colen
June 13th, 2007, 11:30 AM
Lion_Knight wrote:
>
>
> I have a small suggestion that would be nice.
>
> maybe a house rule or optional rule for action points.


I was just reading up on these, and the rules seem a little unclear.
They say you start at 1st level with 5 action points, then gain 5 + half
character level each level after that. So does that mean that a second
level character who didn't spend any of his first 5 action points now
has 11 when he hits 2nd level? Or once you get to 2nd level, are your
1st level action points forgotten entirely and you now have used 0 of a
possible 6?


--
Colen McAlister (colen@wolflair.com)
Chief Engineer, Lone Wolf Development
http://www.wolflair.com/

Colen
June 13th, 2007, 11:47 AM
Lawful_g wrote:
>
>
> How about the ability to make custome materials, i.e. in the Dragonlance
> Campaign Setting there is no such thing as Mithral, instead there is
> Dragonmetal, which is similar but with a natural enhancement bonus.
> Adamantine is replaced by starmetal, so on and so forth. Certain
> sourcebooks have added new materials, like Green Steel in one of the
> Feindish codexs (I can't remember which) and Kheferite (sp?) from
> Sandstorm...


I'll see how much work it'll be to get materials into the editor for
next release.


--
Colen McAlister (colen@wolflair.com)
Chief Engineer, Lone Wolf Development
http://www.wolflair.com/

Colen
June 13th, 2007, 12:18 PM
Culhwch wrote:
>
>
>> >
>> > I'd like to see support for monstrous classes,
>>
>>
>>What do we need to do to support these? I was under the (perhaps
>>erroneous) impression that you could do these just like normal classes.
>
> Monstrous classes combine a monster's hit dice and level adjustment into
> a class. So, for example, a "centaur class" would be 6 levels, 4 of
> which add hit dice, skill points, etc. and 2 that do not, but could add
> other things (say going from a medium creature to a large creature for a
> centaur). If this currently can be done, that's cool. I would just need
> to figure out how to do it.


Changes that only happen at certain levels would have to be script-based
(like the size change you mentioned).


> Oh, and I should also mention that, unlike other classes, if you are taking levels in a monster class, you can't multiclass until you have taken all the levels in the monster class (so, for example, I can't take my first level of fighter until I've taken all 6 levels of centaur). Also, I can't take levels in any other monster class (so no 6th level centaur/5th level hill giant's running around).


Interesting. So I think we need to add:

"Monster Class" type of class that restricts multiclassing
Certain levels not adding skill points and hit dice
Odd saving throw and attack bonus progressions (like the Centaur for
example)


For monster classes to work. Does that sound right?


--
Colen McAlister (colen@wolflair.com)
Chief Engineer, Lone Wolf Development
http://www.wolflair.com/

Mathias
June 13th, 2007, 02:37 PM
Colen, don't forget that the monster classes he's referring to are from the book Savage Species (for 3.0), and are not SRD. They're still something that ought to be supportable, though.

For the monster races in the SRD, all the values for feats, BAC, HP, and saves are derived from the progressions for each monster type, based on the creature's HD, just as they would be for a regular class. However, in the SRD there isn't a provision for playing monstrous creatures at a lower HD+ECL than their normal version - that's what Savage Species added.

Glancing through Savage Species, so far, it looks like the dead levels apply to everything but special abilities. So, whenever the creature increases its Hit Dice, the BAC, Saves and Skills increase according to the normal progression for that monster type. There are just some levels where the ECL increases and special abilities are added, without adding to the Hit Dice (something similar is also needed for the bloodlines concept in Unearthed Arcana).

One thought for design - you may want to design things so that the race and its special abilities are one item, and all the special abilities are functions of the race, simply linked to the character level. Then, create all the various monster hit die progressions (Humanoid, Dragon, Fey, etc.). A specific monstrous race would be limited to taking levels in a specific hit die progression until it had all the required levels (although I'm not sure how to make the ECL kick in at the correct levels that way).

dartnet
June 13th, 2007, 03:04 PM
Or once you get to 2nd level, are your
1st level action points forgotten entirely and you now have used 0 of a
possible 6?



Thats how they work in Eberron.

Lawful_g
June 13th, 2007, 09:27 PM
I'd like to point out that Savage species, as you said, is a 3.0 supplement. Monster classes have since been presented in an updated version in 3.5 supplements like Races of the Wild and the other Races supplements. If I understand you correctly mgehl, it sounds like they haven't changed much, but I don't own Savage Species (because I was a 2nd edition holdout until 3.5) so I can't compare directly. However where/if there are conflicts the more recent should be followed, yes?

And Colen, it sounds like you have it about right. In case you don't have access to Races of the Wild I'll include the info for centaur here as an example... I was going to type the whole thing but probably not be kosher to do so in a public forum, so I'll just hit the highlights.

1st level gives 1st Monstrous humanoid HD (including 2+Int mod x4 skill points and simple wep + longbow and longsword prof) get 1st feat, +1 nat armor and 2 reduced str hoof attacks and modifiers to Int and Dex

Level 2 gives another HD with Hp and skill points, increase in BAB and saves and modifier to Str and Wis.

Level 3 no HD increase so no more Hp/BAB/save inc, natural armor increases, more bonus to Str and Con

Level 4 HD increase to 3 with HP, skills, BAB and saves, now has 3 HD so gains 2nd feat, more bonuses to Str and Dex

Level 5 no HD increase so no HP/skills BAB saves, natural armor increase, base land speed increase, more bonus to Str and Con

Level 6 increase to 4 HD so gains HP skills, BAB, and saves, size increase to large, hoof damage increases

Level 7 would be the first normal class level and would add HP BAB and saves as normal, skill points are not x4 and feats are based on character hit die, so this would be the 5th HD, no feat at level 7

rob
June 14th, 2007, 03:34 AM
At 10:27 PM 6/13/2007, you wrote:
I'd like to point out that Savage species, as you said, is a 3.0 supplement. Monster classes have since been presented in an updated version in 3.5 supplements like Races of the Wild and the other Races supplements. If I understand you correctly mgehl, it sounds like they haven't changed much, but I don't own Savage Species (because I was a 2nd edition holdout until 3.5) so I can't compare directly. However where/if there are conflicts the more recent should be followed, yes?

And Colen, it sounds like you have it about right. In case you don't have access to Races of the Wild I'll include the info for centaur here as an example... I was going to type the whole thing but probably not be kosher to do so in a public forum, so I'll just hit the highlights.
We've got all the "Races of..." books here. The problem is that some races are covered in those books using the new level progression mechanism, while there are other races that are only covered in the older books and for which it's presented as an all-or-nothing level adjustment. So we need a solution that will work similarly for both approaches. We can't use a race selection for one and a level selection for the other, just because that might be easier to do. That would be confusing for users. Whichever method we adopt, it has to be the same for both as far as the user selecting the monstrous race is concerned. And that creates extra complexity that has to be sorted out properly. :-(

Culhwch
June 14th, 2007, 11:19 AM
At 10:27 PM 6/13/2007, you wrote:
I'd like to point out that Savage species, as you said, is a 3.0 supplement. Monster classes have since been presented in an updated version in 3.5 supplements like Races of the Wild and the other Races supplements. If I understand you correctly mgehl, it sounds like they haven't changed much, but I don't own Savage Species (because I was a 2nd edition holdout until 3.5) so I can't compare directly. However where/if there are conflicts the more recent should be followed, yes?

And Colen, it sounds like you have it about right. In case you don't have access to Races of the Wild I'll include the info for centaur here as an example... I was going to type the whole thing but probably not be kosher to do so in a public forum, so I'll just hit the highlights.
We've got all the "Races of..." books here. The problem is that some races are covered in those books using the new level progression mechanism, while there are other races that are only covered in the older books and for which it's presented as an all-or-nothing level adjustment. So we need a solution that will work similarly for both approaches. We can't use a race selection for one and a level selection for the other, just because that might be easier to do. That would be confusing for users. Whichever method we adopt, it has to be the same for both as far as the user selecting the monstrous race is concerned. And that creates extra complexity that has to be sorted out properly. :-(

Ack! I should have realized it should have been tricky to implement, especially since I write software for a living, and know all about making things "user friendly."

I don't mind if it can't be done. I just thought it would be a nice to have. Races are much better anyway since I'd bet that's what most people use anyway.

chogenkiboy
June 19th, 2007, 09:09 AM
This is similar to weapon proficiency posts I noticed elsewhere, but I believe this bug is present in 1.1G.

I have a monk character that I printed with an ealier version of Hero Lab (I don't know which specific version). That character sheet has shuriken, (alchemical) silver shuriken, and cold iron shuriken, and all correctly printed with the same bonus to hit.

I made some character profile updates in version 1.1G, checked print preview, and noticed the silver and cold iron shuriken attack bonus now include a non-proficiency penalty.

I deleted all shuriken weapons and re-added basic shuriken, custom cold iron shuriken, and custom alchemcal silver shuriken. The non-proficiency penalty is still present for the custom shuriken.

I then started a new monk character and added basic shirken and custom shuriken with no special properties. Again the basic shuriken was OK, but the custom shuriken with no properties refelcts a non-proficiency penalty.

I then tried adding a Kama and Custom Kama. Both were fine. One difference I noticed is the Kama shows up as highlighted text (I presume for proficient weapons) on both the basic and custom weapon selection screens , but the shuriken does not show up as highlighted text in the custom weapon selection screen.

I did not test additional weapons or classes.

Colen
June 19th, 2007, 11:54 AM
chogenkiboy wrote:
>
>
> This is similar to weapon proficiency posts I noticed elsewhere, but I
> believe this bug is present in 1.1G.
>
> I have a monk character that I printed with an ealier version of Hero
> Lab (I don't know which specific version). That character sheet has
> shuriken, (alchemical) silver shuriken, and cold iron shuriken, and all
> correctly printed with the same bonus to hit.
>
> I made some character profile updates in version 1.1G, checked print
> preview, and noticed the silver and cold iron shuriken attack bonus now
> include a non-proficiency penalty.
>
> I deleted all shuriken weapons and re-added basic shuriken, custom cold
> iron shuriken, and custom alchemcal silver shuriken. The non-proficiency
> penalty is still present for the custom shuriken.
>
> I then started a new monk character and added basic shirken and custom
> shuriken with no special properties. Again the basic shuriken was OK,
> but the custom shuriken with no properties refelcts a non-proficiency
> penalty.
>
> I then tried adding a Kama and Custom Kama. Both were fine. One
> difference I noticed is the Kama shows up as highlighted text (I presume
> for proficient weapons) on both the basic and custom weapon selection
> screens , but the shuriken does not show up as highlighted text in the
> custom weapon selection screen.
>
> I did not test additional weapons or classes.


Thanks for the excellent bug report. :) This issue is due to how the
shuriken was being handled differently for use in magic weapons (Hero
Lab was thinking that it counted as a separate weapon in some ways, but
not in others). I've fixed this, so it should be working in the next
version. (This will also fix the problem of the Shuriken appearing twice
in the Exotic Weapon Proficiency list.)


Thanks!


--
Colen McAlister (colen@wolflair.com)
Chief Engineer, Lone Wolf Development
http://www.wolflair.com/

dartnet
June 20th, 2007, 02:41 PM
Could you in the next update allow to add our own

arcane familiars
animal companions
fiendish servants
paladin mounts

Thank you.

Dartnet

rob
June 23rd, 2007, 05:20 AM
At 03:41 PM 6/20/2007, you wrote:
Could you in the next update allow to add our own

arcane familiars
animal companions
fiendish servants
paladin mounts
The new V1.1h update should now provide dummy entries where you can specify what type of familiar/companion/etc you have. One of the things on our todo list is to fully support these various creatures, with full stats. When we do that, you'll be able to add your own custom familiars/companions/etc in gory detail. Until then, we need to keep things simplified so that we won't break existing characters when we add the full implementation. So please be patient on this one so that we can do it right and not break anything in the process. :-)